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Old 08-23-2010, 04:28 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AceCombat View Post
Tyson was the Heavyweight Champion when Boxing was the most famous it ever was and unfortunately, this embellishes (often inadvertantly) his credentials and skills as a boxer.

Tyson, although explosive and very powerful, is not nearly as skilled of a boxer as Toney is.

As a matter of fact, Toney would outwork Tyson, land more all purpose strikes, and utilize supreme footwork to frustrate Tyson and make him predictable (it would be a boring fight). I pick Toney over Tyson 8/10 times.

Now Hopkins on the other hand, a very smart fighter, methodical, tactical, with excellent conditioning; his length and reach probably wouldn't hurt either.

Although his attitude isn't always the greatest, I think a younger Hopkins would have more potential than the likes of Tyson or Toney.
I absolutely cant disagree with a post any more than this one! Tyson was awesome in all aspects of boxing. This idea that he was all about power and speed is false. He had fecking brilliant head and foot movement. His defence was a lot better than most think. Forget his unravelling after Cus died. That doesn't mean a thing. When Tyson was on it, he was a god. Period. He would absolutely crush Hopkins and Toney. No doubt about that in my mind.
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Old 08-23-2010, 05:47 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AceCombat View Post
Tyson was the Heavyweight Champion when Boxing was the most famous it ever was and unfortunately, this embellishes (often inadvertantly) his credentials and skills as a boxer.

Tyson, although explosive and very powerful, is not nearly as skilled of a boxer as Toney is.

As a matter of fact, Toney would outwork Tyson, land more all purpose strikes, and utilize supreme footwork to frustrate Tyson and make him predictable (it would be a boring fight). I pick Toney over Tyson 8/10 times.

Now Hopkins on the other hand, a very smart fighter, methodical, tactical, with excellent conditioning; his length and reach probably wouldn't hurt either.

Although his attitude isn't always the greatest, I think a younger Hopkins would have more potential than the likes of Tyson or Toney.
wow. you clearly have no clue do you. had you of watched any of Mike Tysons Fights in his prime you would know Toney would get destroyed. putting aside his personal life, tyson was one of greatest and definitely most powerfull heavyweights of all time.
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:21 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AceCombat View Post
As a matter of fact, Toney would outwork Tyson, land more all purpose strikes, and utilize supreme footwork to frustrate Tyson and make him predictable (it would be a boring fight). I pick Toney over Tyson 8/10 times.
Now, Im not some Boxing expert or even that big of a fan anymore, but seriously? I guess everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I'd pick Tyson by bloody murder 10/10 times
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:29 AM   #14 (permalink)
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There is no doubt in my mind that Tyson would destroy James Toney in his prime. At his best, he had no equals.

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Old 08-23-2010, 09:00 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Thats not true dude. Tysons trainer died before Tyson ever became Champ.
That's correct, but he molded him into becoming the champ he became. I've read his book a while back called "Bad Intentions," and watched his latest documentary.

Cus D'Amato:
He took Tyson under his wing and adopted him after Tyson's mother died, and trained him over the next few years, teaching him all the techniques and movements a stocky heavyweight could use. Despite Tyson's small size he soon became a superb heavyweight contender. D'Amato was assisted by Teddy Atlas, who later became a respected trainer himself and later Kevin Rooney. D'Amato died shortly before Tyson became the youngest world heavyweight titleholder in history.

Footage of D'Amato can be seen in Tyson (film), a documentary about Tyson, who in extended interviews credits D'Amato with turning his life around. D'Amato also encouraged Tyson to use the peek-a-boo approach style of boxing, where the hands are placed in front of the boxers face for more protection.


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Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
I absolutely cant disagree with a post any more than this one! Tyson was awesome in all aspects of boxing. This idea that he was all about power and speed is false. He had fecking brilliant head and foot movement. His defence was a lot better than most think. Forget his unravelling after Cus died. That doesn't mean a thing. When Tyson was on it, he was a god. Period. He would absolutely crush Hopkins and Toney. No doubt about that in my mind.
My analysis is simple. Had Cus been around Tyson would have gone down as one of the top 10's. He was ranked a lot lower than expected because of his downward spiral after the Buster loss and poor management from Don King. That's what's wrong with boxing. People like DK who care nothing about the sport, but fattening their wallets.

It's only fitting that boxing is beginning to slowly fade out.

Long live "IRON MIKE!"
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:08 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MMAnWEED View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCSR7...h+div-1r-13-HM

Now With The Toney vs. Couture fight coming up i thought it would be interesting to get your guys opinion on how Mike Tyson in his prime would do in MMA. James Toney is one hell of a boxer but I dont think he quite compares to Tyson. With Tyson's devastating knockout power, is it fair to say a guy being so good at one aspect of MMA would do well in lets say the UFC? Now typically any other boxer wouldn't stand a chance but in my opinion Tyson is so explosive and powerful he would be able to knock people out on his BACK.
If a prime Mike Tyson learned a good sprawl and along with disciplined submission defence, he would do exellent! His style of blocking did not only consist of parrying with the big gloves, but a lot with head and body movement. This would be quite effective in MMA. Tyson with 4 ounce gloves on is a scary thought...

His powerful boxing style would translate better into MMA than a Larry Holmes fx, the same way Mirko Cro Cop's style translates better into MMA than Peter Aerts.


About Tyson's decline. It started to happen, when the good people around him left him.
Tyson's was an exellent specimen, but mentally weak. He needed good role models, good pep talks, positive influence in is daily life. A Cus D'Amato, but also, Terry Atlas, Kevin Rooney and a few others. These surroundings were gradually replaced by Rubin Givens, Don King and a hopless trainer.
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:11 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Tyson was an absolute monster in his prime. The rest of his "class" didn't even stand a chance until after he fell off. When Tyson has his head in the game, I truly believe there have been very few boxers in the history of the sport that could even legitimately compete on his level. The combination of his speed, power and feet/ head movement was insane. I just cant think of anyone that was more dominant in their prime.
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:09 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Yeah at one point there were talks about him participating in PRIDE and K-1, but due to visa issues that didn't happen!
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:12 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMAnWEED View Post
Now With The Toney vs. Couture fight coming up i thought it would be interesting to get your guys opinion on how Mike Tyson in his prime would do in MMA. James Toney is one hell of a boxer but I dont think he quite compares to Tyson. With Tyson's devastating knockout power, is it fair to say a guy being so good at one aspect of MMA would do well in lets say the UFC? Now typically any other boxer wouldn't stand a chance but in my opinion Tyson is so explosive and powerful he would be able to knock people out on his BACK.
Actually, this is a conversation I have pretty regularly with a lot of my friends who are big boxing fans. I think that, of all of the great professional boxers, Tyson is the one that's most interesting in terms of MMA.

This is a guy with big, powerful legs, great quickness, athleticism, evasiveness and explosiveness. He's everything that a coach wants in an up-and-coming fighter. Apart from the fact that he may be the greatest boxer in the history of the modern pugilism, his style is awesome for MMA.

People talk about how much the power of Brock Lesnar or Shane Carwin plays into his ability to be effective in the standup. Well, this is a guy with that power, and that same athletic quickness of Lesnar or even a Dos Santos, and much better head movement.

Now, if he was a young guy, if he could still learn to fight off of his back, he'd be great. But you have to operate from the assumption that he would attempt to cultivate a ground game and some wrestling.

If you take Mike Tyson's boxing and give him the jiu-jitsu or wrestling even of a mediocre grappler who can just stay alive on the ground, he could be absolutely devastating. With his athleticism, though, one wonders how easy it would be for him to pick up that game.

Still, to say a young Tyson would have been an interesting prospect is absolutely right. If he had a wresting game that was substantial, he could be for MMA ten time what Chuck Liddell was, purely on the basis of his being faster and more explosive. If he developed that takedown defense, he'd be one of those great fighters.

But MMA is a tricky sport to call, because until you see how a game progresses you can't look at it in the context of matchups. If Tyson had the takedown defense of a Chuck Liddell, the best matchup for dealing with him would be radically different than if he dedicated his time to working his guard. It's hard to say where he'd fit in the current heavyweight division except to waste time stating the obvious, which is this: If Mike Tyson fought in MMA, he would have the best hands of any fighter in the history of the sport.

And, in case it's not obvious to you, that's because Mike Tyson (in many estimations) has the best hands in the history of pugilism.
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:51 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
I absolutely cant disagree with a post any more than this one! Tyson was awesome in all aspects of boxing. This idea that he was all about power and speed is false. He had fecking brilliant head and foot movement. His defence was a lot better than most think. Forget his unravelling after Cus died. That doesn't mean a thing. When Tyson was on it, he was a god. Period. He would absolutely crush Hopkins and Toney. No doubt about that in my mind.
I second that. Tyson >>> Toney, in every aspect. For starters, Toney is only 5'9" and started his career at 168lbs. and is a fat lightheavy. Tyson was knocking out the big boys (6'4" 250lbs) since he was 19. No contest. Mike would still get smashed into the cage and taken down for a beatdown in MMA, though. If he'd trained MMA since he was a youngster? Different story altogether.
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