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Old 09-01-2010, 10:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Toxic View Post
Butt scooting will never ever work in a cage. Ever. In a ring at least you can cut off the ring and use the corners you can't even do that in a cage. Joe would pick Aoki apart standing and just walk away from butt scootin boogie.. Kenny would tear Aoki apart worse than Mach did. Face it Aoki has no chance outside Japan against any top 15 LW.
He did it against Eddie. That's not how he gets fighters down Toxic.

Aoki can pull guard on an opponent by getting a hold of even a wrist, he's that dangerous.

He would maul 13 of the guys you listed. Joe Stevenson outboxing Aoki wouldn't happen for a second.

Joe would try to come in with that standard boxing style that has never been effective against ANY elite fighter and Aoki would get a hold of a part of his body and tear it off or choke him out.

LOL @ Joe Stevenson being able to defeat Aoki.

And Shinya Aoki has every chance outside of Japan at the top 15. That includes Eddie Alvarez again.

21 of his 25 wins are by stoppage. He's got sick killer instinct. You're way wrong on this one.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:01 PM   #22 (permalink)

 
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Originally Posted by _RIVAL_ View Post
He did it against Eddie. That's not how he gets fighters down Toxic.

Aoki can pull guard on an opponent by getting a hold of even a wrist, he's that dangerous.

He would maul 13 of the guys you listed. Joe Stevenson outboxing Aoki wouldn't happen for a second.

Joe would try to come in with that standard boxing style that has never been effective against ANY elite fighter and Aoki would get a hold of a part of his body and tear it off or choke him out.

LOL @ Joe Stevenson being able to defeat Aoki.

And Shinya Aoki has every chance outside of Japan at the top 15. That includes Eddie Alvarez again.

21 of his 25 wins are by stoppage. He's got sick killer instinct. You're way wrong on this one.
How many times did he grab hold of Melendez and use that "killer instinct" None because its all he has and everyone knows it. Instead he just kept scooting around on his butt looking like a small child throwing a temper tantrum. Even when Melenzez recklessly dove into his guard Aoki failed to really mount any kind of offense. Face it Aoki is a great BJJ guy without any ability to get the fight down or strike to set up a TD. Aoki fighting Gilbert Melendez looked like Thales Leites trying to fight Anderson Silva if Leites somehow could have been even more terrified of Silva.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:02 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The Amarok View Post
what world titles in MMA has Stevenson and Florian won?
Please dont tell your counting TUF as a world titles yea right.
My point was that none of the fighters you mentioned outside of Penn, Edgar, and Melendez have held a title that means anything.

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Originally Posted by The Amarok View Post
How is it that there is lesser comp in Japan. Everytime i check fighters that try to swing over to Japan dont do so.
If that was the case how come Melendaz couldnt beat Ishida the 1st time? Or Randleman beat Nakamura, Liddell beating Rampage. I could go on and on with this list but the Nationalism and Elitism is highly evident in your post. As far as im concerned its a two way street. Think about how many U.S champs are there in Japan? If they were so good then maybe they can reign supreme but they dont. If jake sheilds was so good, how come he couldnt keep is Shooto title?
It's not nationalism it's the truth. When I am referring to Japan's promotions, I am talking about post PRIDE. During PRIDE Japan did have a lot of viable talent. Also Randleman isn't any good by the way. Rampage fights in the UFC, so maybe you should go on and on. Oh also Melendez was robbed against Ishida. The reason why there aren't US champs in Japan is that the best fighters are here, so they don't go there to fight lesser competition. Jake Shields was not a top fighter 6 years ago. Fighters take time to develop. Is that the best you can do? Find a fight from 6 years ago?

As far as Japanese promotion stars, lets look at some that happened recently and not 6 years ago:

Zaromskis lost twice in Strikeforce
We found out that King Mo and Moussasi aren't as good as Feijao
And of course Aoki got owned by Melendez.

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Originally Posted by The Amarok View Post
I think its the other way around if THEY want Aoki's top ten spot, THEY have to beat Aoki. You got it all sorts of twisted. And there are several things wrong with that list beside the UFC favoritism
1. No Ben Henderson?
2.We seen what happens when Joe daddy goes up against a good grappler, imagation what happens if Aoki gets a hold of him
3. Sanchez is Welterweight
4.Griffen? Really?
5 Gomi has shown that the ground game is his weakness. Aoki would just make it more obvious
4.Nate Diaz is welterweight
5.If Ken-flo doesnt get stage fright, he might stand a chance
6. Guida is too damn reckless, Ken-Flo made him pay.
7. If Sherk can layoff the juice. And beside his only wins worth metion is over Karo, Gamburyan, Ken-Flo and Franca. All by descions and by most peoples standard (not mine) that not all that impressive is it?
Soti, Edgar, Maynard and maybe BJ at this point are the only legit compition teh UFC has for Aoki.
1. Ben Henderson could whip Aoki too
2. Joe Daddy wouldn't grapple. He'd simply use his wrestling not to get taken down and punch Aoki Melendez stle.
3. For now he is, but he hasn't faired too well, so he might move back down.
4. Griffen's wrestling would keep him standing, because Aoki can't take anyone down. US refs don't allow butt scooting. So he gets picked apart just like he did against Melendez.
5. Again Aoki can't get Gomi down

I decided to use numbers correctly

6. Nate Diaz said that he would like to move back down to LW for some big fights.

6. Guida would punch Aoki not go to the ground with him
7. Kenny wouldn't be afraid of a Aoki, because he's less dangerous than Gomi.
8. Really you still believe that Sherk tested positive? A win is win, it doesn't matter if it's a decision.
9. You're right that Edgar, Penn, and Soti would beat him, but so would Dunham.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:29 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rockybalboa25 View Post
My point was that none of the fighters you mentioned outside of Penn, Edgar, and Melendez have held a title that means anything.


A world titles is a world title regardless of the Promotion. To say otherwise insults every none UFC champion.
So Overeem, Fedor, Bigfoot, Hansen Mousasi,KID, etc are garbage because their not Zuffa fighter.
That is the biggest double standard I ever heard. If GSP, Silva, Shogun and Lensar were to loss their respective titles did they have a bad night? Was it a fluck? Did their oppenant cheat? NO
More than likey Zuffa writers i.e Sherdog would say that they had some BS injury, they werent in top form and every other excuse they can come up with. But when a top ten fighter outside of Zuffa loses a fight he is a "can" i.e Fedor, Aoki, Mousasi, King Mo etc. SUCH BULLSHIT. The lack of equality amoung rankings is whats tearing up MMA these days. Every biased " Zuffa Zombie" (bloodstainlane came up with that one) writer and blogger has to bash fighters outside the UFC and the reason people believe them is because there is some many writers doing it.
Its bias posts like yours and Zuffa Zombie writers like them that make your arguement less convincing.
Worst then FOX news, I swear.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:38 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Toxic View Post
How many times did he grab hold of Melendez and use that "killer instinct" None because its all he has and everyone knows it. Instead he just kept scooting around on his butt looking like a small child throwing a temper tantrum. Even when Melenzez recklessly dove into his guard Aoki failed to really mount any kind of offense. Face it Aoki is a great BJJ guy without any ability to get the fight down or strike to set up a TD. Aoki fighting Gilbert Melendez looked like Thales Leites trying to fight Anderson Silva if Leites somehow could have been even more terrified of Silva.
The answer to your question is easy Toxic. It's because Gilbert Melendez had an excellent game plan and is obviously better than Aoki. Which is why he's ranked higher.

Okay I see your logic here. So basically B.J. Penn has absolutly no BJJ what so ever because he was able to do absolutly nothing with Frankie Edgar on the ground.

As a matter of fact he has zero striking as well since he was getting tooled on his feet, because if he was world class in those areas he would have destroyed Frankie Edgar.

Also he has no TDD because he was getting slammed on his ass time after time..

I got you. I think Joe Stevenson could probably beat Penn too.... but wait...
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:57 PM   #26 (permalink)

 
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Originally Posted by _RIVAL_ View Post
The answer to your question is easy Toxic. It's because Gilbert Melendez had an excellent game plan and is obviously better than Aoki.

Okay I see your logic here. So basically B.J. Penn has absolutly no BJJ what so ever because he was able to do absolutly nothing with Frankie Edgar on the ground.

As a matter of fact he has zero striking as well since he was getting tooled on his feet, because if he was world class in those areas he would have destroyed Frankie Edgar.

Also he has no TDD because he was getting slammed on his ass time after time..

I got you. I think Joe Stevenson could probably beat Penn too.... but wait...
Don't twist this, I fail to see how you cannot watch Aoki's past fights and not realize how much he is babied by the Japanese MMA community and how the failure of the Japanese to force a stand up plays into his hands. There is no chance of him finding any success in the global MMA community until he works extensively on his stand up to at least get it up to a mediocre passable level and he needs to work a lot on his wrestling.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:00 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Toxic View Post
Don't twist this, I fail to see how you cannot watch Aoki's past fights and not realize how much he is babied by the Japanese MMA community and how the failure of the Japanese to force a stand up plays into his hands. There is no chance of him finding any success in the global MMA community until he works extensively on his stand up to at least get it up to a mediocre passable level and he needs to work a lot on his wrestling.
Nah you're the one twisting it. I gave you an exact and perfect example of what you were saying.

The shoe fits on both feet. They both freakin suck. Matter of fact any fighter who's ever had his game played better sucks in the mma community...

Good thing A Silva pulled off that triangle or he'd suck too.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:05 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:13 AM   #29 (permalink)

 
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Originally Posted by _RIVAL_ View Post
Nah you're the one twisting it. I gave you an exact and perfect example of what you were saying.

The shoe fits on both feet. They both freakin suck. Matter of fact any fighter who's ever had his game played better sucks in the mma community...

Good thing A Silva pulled off that triangle or he'd suck too.
No Aoki's problem has he only has one game and he is not that good at getting the fight down. He needs it down but can't do it. its incredibly hard to take a guy down when you do not have good take downs and you can't even strike good enough to set it up. I would call his striking horrible but fighters like Demian Maia with horrible striking would be offended. Andy fighter in the US with a wrestling base is gonna be able to keep it standing, any fighter with a good jab is gonna be able to maintain distance. Alvarez would beat Aoki down if that fight happened in SF (I still think Alvarez is a little overrated as well). The unified rules get a lot of flack for favoring wrestlers but the Japanese scene is just as bad for favoring Aoki. How does he not earn a yellow card scooting around on his butt? Aoki is the single most overrated fighter not only in the LHW division but in MMA overall. In a grappling match Aoki could probably destroy 99% of the division (really BJ and Vitor Riberio are the only real challenges I can see) but in MMA he should be forced to bring the fight there not just scoot around on his butt throwing a temper tantrum trying to get the fight to the ground. I don't understand how the japanese can punish wrestlers for stalling if they just hold there opponent down to prevent them from doing anything from the bottom but allow Aoki to scoot on his butt in order merely prevent his opponent from being able to expose his shit striking. Actually I do understand its blatant favortism for there poster boy.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:15 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by _RIVAL_ View Post
Nah you're the one twisting it. I gave you an exact and perfect example of what you were saying.

The shoe fits on both feet. They both freakin suck. Matter of fact any fighter who's ever had his game played better sucks in the mma community...

Good thing A Silva pulled off that triangle or he'd suck too.
The difference is that Anderson Silva and BJ Penn have been fighting top competition. Aoki has been fighting lesser competition in Japan for a long time. As soon as he stepped up to good competition, he got owned.
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