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Old 11-02-2010, 05:11 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Saenchai View Post
I think Pride is more comparable with UFC then with Strikeforce. Actually Pride had better fight cards then UFC and i mean nowadays UFC cus back when Pride was alive UFC was irrelevant compared to Pride! Beside, most of dominant fighters in UFC came from Pride. As for Strikeforce since it's Strikeforce that this thread is about, I say no, strikeforce will never be on Pride's level! They can't even put reasonable fights together (ex: fedor beats rogers, rogers gets title shot...or fedor loses to werdum and wants title shot, and he would get it if overeem wasn't in for k-1 fights this year!)
so youre saying strikeforce today is comparable with ufc of back then? like i said ufc currently is 3-4 times bigger then it was back then. who they had? @HW sylvia and arlovski @lhw Liddell, Couture and Tito and im not even sure they had a 155 division that only had Sherk and Penn.

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Originally Posted by Toxic View Post
No SF has Fedor(2010) Ubereem (V2.0), Werdum, Antonio Silva and Barnett (2010).
Pride had Fedor,CroCop, Nog and Barnett in there primes, Pride also had guys like Don Frye, Gary Goodridge, Mark Coleman, Gilbert Yvel, Heath Herring (who was a legit top 5 HW when he was in Pride) Semmy Schilt, Aleks E,Yoshida, Kharitonov, Mark Hunt, etc,
You forgot Mezger, Sakuraba,Vernon White. Vitor Belfort, Hendo,Rampage, Jeremy Horn, Kevin Randleman,Minowman, etc,

No, I am gonna try to explain this nicely because I suspect your rather new to the sport or have a limited knowledge of the historical significance or historical accomplishments of many of the Pride era fighters. You cannot judge a company so long past based on the current success or failure of the fighters that once called it home. Many have retired, some were getting on then and many others just are not at there peak anymore and cannot compete at the same level. SF has a decent HW division but they do not even remotely rival the depth that Pride had. In fact short of possibly the current UFC roster no organization in history has been able to compete with that depth. With all due respect you couldn't be more wrong.
now i know Cro Cop and Big Nog were at their prime and way better fighters then they are today, but they are in ufc now so i dont compare them to their current state. i compare cro cop and big nog to ubereem and werdum, and i think fedor and barnett only deteriorated slightly. also Pride didnt have a steroid testing requirement implanted, im not going to point any fingers, but the likelihood of fighters taking steroids increases when there is no testing involved (for example when did barnett win a big fight when there was steroid testing implented, and he passed the test?).

regarding the fighters you listed-Frye- entertaining pioneer but not more. goodridge- overrated arm wrestler coleman- great as a pioneer but not as mma evolved yvel-horrible in pride herring- definetly not top 5 schilt hunt kharitonov- 1d strikers with no achievements in mma yoshida- couldnt beat royce gracie dana white-only good in pancrase sakuraba- pioneer and thats it rampage-only became good in ufc horn randleman and minowaman- come on!

pride probably had more depth, but who cares about that when its fighters that are on ultimate fighter reject levels? lots of fighters crossed over from pro wrestling and couldnt fight, or were just freakshows (giant silva for example). strikeforce seems to try and stay away from freakshows (they rejected the possibility of signing kimbo)
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Old 11-02-2010, 05:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Old 11-02-2010, 05:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by limba View Post
Pride put on the best shows! Unbelievable!
The intros to the fights were incredible! The atmosphere was INSANE!

Maybe it's just me!
Watch this!
There is a 3 hour documentary about Pride!
I embeded the first 5 parts i found on Youtube.
Or you could watch it all, on this link!

http://mmavideolinks.to/documentarie...de-decade.html








Enjoy!
thanks for posting this!

this is a good documentary. though im sure strikeforce and ufc could also make good documentaries.

what i see there is they have great arenas with flashing lights and big entrances. but elite xc had the same thing, and they were doing freakshows as well. it doesnt make pride special or magical. even Art of War has big entrances and music

i liked pride but certain things annoyed me about pride. fixed matches (especially takadas), biased judging for japanese fighters, and bad matchmaking. i cant say these things dont occur in strikeforce though with certainty.
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Old 11-02-2010, 05:45 PM   #14 (permalink)

 
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Originally Posted by UFC86 View Post
so youre saying strikeforce today is comparable with ufc of back then? like i said ufc currently is 3-4 times bigger then it was back then. who they had? @HW sylvia and arlovski @lhw Liddell, Couture and Tito and im not even sure they had a 155 division that only had Sherk and Penn.



now i know Cro Cop and Big Nog were at their prime and way better fighters then they are today, but they are in ufc now so i dont compare them to their current state. i compare cro cop and big nog to ubereem and werdum, and i think fedor and barnett only deteriorated slightly. also Pride didnt have a steroid testing requirement implanted, im not going to point any fingers, but the likelihood of fighters taking steroids increases when there is no testing involved (for example when did barnett win a big fight when there was steroid testing implented, and he passed the test?).

regarding the fighters you listed-Frye- entertaining pioneer but not more. goodridge- overrated arm wrestler coleman- great as a pioneer but not as mma evolved yvel-horrible in pride herring- definetly not top 5 schilt hunt kharitonov- 1d strikers with no achievements in mma yoshida- couldnt beat royce gracie dana white-only good in pancrase sakuraba- pioneer and thats it rampage-only became good in ufc horn randleman and minowaman- come on!

pride probably had more depth, but who cares about that when its fighters that are on ultimate fighter reject levels? lots of fighters crossed over from pro wrestling and couldnt fight, or were just freakshows (giant silva for example). strikeforce seems to try and stay away from freakshows (they rejected the possibility of signing kimbo)
Your compelety rejecting the context of when they were fighting. In ten years Fedor/Rogers/Overeem/Barnett will be no more credible than Saku/Coleman/Herring/Frye. Its the nature of the beast but at the time its hard to argue they weren't important. You mock talking of Sakuraba which just goes to show your ignorance of his historical signifigance. Without Sakuraba there would have been no Pride and likely there would not be a Dream today only Funaki an Suzuki have more historical significance to MMA in Japan. Strikeforce has yet to have a fighter come through there doors who has been as historically significant for there company. All those people I named drew money and were popular stars in there day but because you don't understand there significance in the proper context your can't possibly come to terms and understand just how important they were in there era. The comparison between SF and Pride is ludicrous Pride was and international phenomenon while SF is a step above a regional promotion.
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Old 11-02-2010, 05:46 PM   #15 (permalink)
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You're digging yourself deeper 86. Not gonna gain any fans by bashing pride
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Old 11-02-2010, 05:52 PM   #16 (permalink)

 
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Originally Posted by RustyRenegade View Post
You're digging yourself deeper 86. Not gonna gain any fans by bashing pride
I don't think he is trying to bash Pride. I just don't think he really understands just what Pride was. I don't think he understands the caliber those cards were because he is looking back at them with a current mindset. Its like looking back at Ken Shamrock and laughing at the poor quality of the guys who fought in the early UFC's. Or saying Tito never beat anyone good when he was UFC champ because he was fighting guys like Ken Shamrock and Guy Mezger.
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Old 11-02-2010, 06:00 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Toxic View Post
I don't think he is trying to bash Pride. I just don't think he really understands just what Pride was. I don't think he understands the caliber those cards were because he is looking back at them with a current mindset. Its like looking back at Ken Shamrock and laughing at the poor quality of the guys who fought in the early UFC's. Or saying Tito never beat anyone good when he was UFC champ because he was fighting guys like Ken Shamrock and Guy Mezger.
I get what you're saying but when I first got on here and didn't know who Sakuraba was I was made fun of If I remember right you told them to back off too. Luckily I was turned on to Pride by the other members here and can appreciate what it was. The Op would too I imagine. Love reading about it and I'll be watching that documentary that was posted earlier when I get home. I should have used another word besides bashing I suppose Either way, Pride>Strikeforce
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Old 11-02-2010, 06:00 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I dont see the connection, if anything I would say SF stands out for other reasons, in many ways SF treat it more like a Sport than a Show like it gets treated by the UFC (WWE style), SF has a lot of qualities I like, for example they are willing to honestly acknowledged a fighters achievements on the MMA circuit and away from there own promotion, and thus giving any and all new fighter coming to them a suitable opponents, where as the UFC just hypes them up through there own promotion which has a very strong marketing tool to convince people that there fighters would beat the rest of the world, I mean just look how many fools they drew into believe that Brock was one of the best HW's ion the world after around only 5 fights lol.
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Old 11-02-2010, 06:04 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The Honda Center which hosted that last Brock/Cain fight seats 17,174 people.

The Cesar's Palace Colosseum which hosts Major boxing and MMA events seats 4,296 people.

The Saiatama Super Arena was selling out 37,000 seats for an MMA event, 10-15 years ago.

It's not about the intro music or the crazy annoucement lady. Pride contained, "relative to its time," the greatest fighters in the world and was selling 37,000 seats 10-15 years ago.

The last biggest and baddest UFC 121 event, at a full house in the Honda Center would have left more then half of Saitama Stadium completely empty. The fans weren't pitched hype to create interest, they knew MMA and appreciated it to a level that we in the U.S. have yet to reach as a whole. That's why Pride was magical.

SF isn't comparable to the UFC and it sure as heck isnt comparable to PRIDE. I think today's elite fighters would beat yester-years elite fighters of PRIDE for sure, but for it time, PRIDE was the king of all MMA, internationally.

If there was a Japanese counter-part of Dana White, perpetuating PRIDE as Dana advocates for the UFC, PRIDE would have become the New World Order by now.

That said, I did hate all that shady, Triad fight set up BS, but apart from that, PRIDE was a sick generation.
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Old 11-02-2010, 06:04 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Brock is one of the best in the world. Of course Strikeforce will have to acknowledge achievements outside of their organization. What could they say about a fighter who only has 2-3 fights in Strikeforce besides outside fights?
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