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Old 12-15-2010, 08:16 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by M.C View Post
Is Ali fighting the best RIGHT NOW? Nope, he's retired. Let's say Fedor retired right now. Would he still be getting the same hate? Yup, you bet he would. You know why? People find reasons to hate on great fighters and question their legacy/career, it happens to all great sportsmen.

If Fedor retired last year, would we be having this conversation? Yup, cause people would be still saying "Fedor only beat Sylvia and Arlovski before he retired", even though they were both highly ranked. Why? Cause people will find a way or reason to disagree with someone's career.

What Fedor has done in his career cannot be forgotten, and if he was retired he'd be getting the same crap now as he would if he was retired. Just becasue he's still fighting does not mean that his legacy or career or anything is even slightly tarnished. What he's done is done, and what he's done is amazing and will always be amazing, no matter what he does right now or in the future, retired or not retired, here or there, it does not matter.

A legacy is what have you done in your career, and Fedor's career is being praised right now to this day by Legends, P4P contenders, current and former champions, as well as a very, very large portion of hardcore MMA fans as the best in the sport's history.

His legacy is set in stone, what he has done is there. What he does from now on will always be questioned, as it would be with any other great fighter, but that does not remove the past or his legacy as a whole.
I'm curious, what do you consider Fedors Top 3 victories (most significant) in MMA.

He is squandering his prime, he had the opportunity to fight the best but he chose to sit on the sidelines and fight some hacks

Greatest of all Time? No. Because when the opportunity presented itself to be tested in the most competitive division he was nowhere to be found.
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:06 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Voiceless,*
I'm okay with saying that Fedor is the greatest HW during the Pride era, but not the greatest fighter now or ever. He's lost that top position not because he's over the hill, but because he's not fighting the best. If, for example, he fought in the UFC and won the belt, then I'd feel comfortable calling him the greatest now and the greatest ever.


M.C.
We seem to be going in circles. What's done is done. Fedor beat fighter X at such and such date. The question is whether that fighter is or was the best at that time. Arlovski and Sylvia wouldn't last long in the UFC. Neither Cro Cop nor Noguiera are serious contenders. Werdum is certainly not the best, wouldn't you agree? I think Werdum as as good as the above fighters, but I wouldn't say he's the best.

Ali fought the best at Fedor's age, and won. Fedor is not fighting the best at Ali's age, and lost. *Ali was still beating the best in his mid 30's, that's why his legacy is what it is. *Fedor's legacy is not over yet, and it's headed towards the wrong direction.
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:57 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tecnotut View Post
Fedor beat fighter X at such and such date. The question is whether that fighter is or was the best at that time. Arlovski and Sylvia wouldn't last long in the UFC. Neither Cro Cop nor Noguiera are serious contenders. Werdum is certainly not the best, wouldn't you agree?

*Fedor's legacy is not over yet, and it's headed towards the wrong direction.
Well played tecnotut. I have a feeling you have just ended this debate. Bravo!
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:25 PM   #24 (permalink)
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His legacy is secured. His relevancy is certainly fading as he and his management stall on moving past his loss to Werdum. The guy needs to fight, otherwise he's just resting on his past accomplishments waiting for his rematch with Werdum.
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Old 12-15-2010, 11:15 PM   #25 (permalink)

 
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Fedor's relevancy is rapidly fading and even more importantly yes his legacy is being destroyed. When people though of Fedor a year ago they thought of him as the ultimate bad ass and his legacy would have been that of one of the most respected and beloved fighters in the history of the sport. Now when many people think of Fedor they think of ducked fights and slime ball back door politics. Many people argued that Fedor's record can never be taken away from him and that is true but a fighters record does not directly correspond to his legacy. Chuck Lidell's legacy is just as rooted in the love and respect of the fans as it is in his win/loss record. Fedor's stock with fans is dropping because of political games and that will forever tarnish his legacy unless something drastic changes.
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Old 12-16-2010, 04:58 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Fedor isn't ducking "the best" because "the best" aren't just in the UFC. The UFC's HW division is crap, so is SF's, but SF's is less crap than the UFC's which is filled with a bunch of overhyped fighters. Like I've said countless times, Dana's really gotten into your heads by making you think a guy has to be in the UFC to prove himself. Quit buying the hype and realize Fedor has been fighting top comp outside of the organization. If you do a little research you'll see that he's been facing the best outside of the UFC. Now don't go on and say the best HW's outside of the UFC are worse comp than the ones in the UFC...the only thing really hurting Fedor is that he's obviously ducking Overeem...
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:24 AM   #27 (permalink)
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If I went unbeaten for 10 years as an MMA fighter and then retired, then my legacy is that I went unbeaten for 10 years.

If I went unbeaten for 10 years as an MMA fighter and then fought a bunch of cans for 5 years before retiring?... guess what?... my legacy is that I went unbeaten for 10 years.

Theres no fecking difference. Some of you need to wake up. For years and years Fedor fought the best HW's in the world and won. No other HW has done that since. I dont give a shit what happened in the last year or so. It doesnt take away from the fact that he did a Silva/GSP on the HW division and did it for longer than anybody else.

Of course, some whiney idiot is going to waffle on about how rubbish it HW's were back in the day. So, fecking, what? They were still the best HW's in the world at the time.

Should we write off Fangio because F1 cars were so slow back then? Or dismiss Pele as a rubbish footballer because the quality of football was rubbish in the 60's? How about we call Royce Gracie shite because Matt Hughes crushed him 8 years after he launched BJJ around the world.

I dont know why I'm responding to this hater rubbish... but hey... what else is there to do.
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:25 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.C View Post
The last few years of most great fighters are all bad. Randy, if he retires now, if the only person I can think of that will come out of his career on a high note.
Yeah its true, only person i can think of is good old Bas Rutten
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Old 12-16-2010, 07:57 AM   #29 (permalink)

 
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Originally Posted by ptw View Post
Fedor isn't ducking "the best" because "the best" aren't just in the UFC. The UFC's HW division is crap, so is SF's, but SF's is less crap than the UFC's which is filled with a bunch of overhyped fighters. Like I've said countless times, Dana's really gotten into your heads by making you think a guy has to be in the UFC to prove himself. Quit buying the hype and realize Fedor has been fighting top comp outside of the organization. If you do a little research you'll see that he's been facing the best outside of the UFC. Now don't go on and say the best HW's outside of the UFC are worse comp than the ones in the UFC...the only thing really hurting Fedor is that he's obviously ducking Overeem...
The "best" outside the UFC is the Reem and Fedor has been ducking him harder than the drunken Uncle at the family reunion. If I do my research? Ah the best must be the guy who lost two in a row before barely being able to beat Reuben Vilreal? Don't get me wrong I am not shitting on Arlovski or Sylvia both were quality opponents at the time but since he joined SF he has not been fighting the best they have to offer.
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Old 12-16-2010, 10:50 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Overeem hasn't exactly made it easy to setup a fight either, they both have the worst management it seems for making fights we want. Also, since Brock is no longer the god among men some people thought, the UFC HW division doesn't have a single threat to Fedor worse than Overeem. So if/when Fedor beats him, that's the final piece in cementing his legacy, no questions asked.
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