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-   -   Issues with Strikeforce. (http://www.mmaforum.com/general-mma-discussion/85714-issues-strikeforce.html)

EliteUndisputed 12-25-2010 09:11 PM

Issues with Strikeforce.
 
First of all, let me assure you I am NOT a UFC is the Gospel of MMA kind of guy, however....

How can peopleÖ.I donít wanna say like because I do like Strikeforce, they put on great fights, but as competition to the UFC, how can you honestly see them as such?

Take Nick Diaz for example.

I donít make too much about it, because I like being here, but Iím about as Anti-GSP as you can get, diehard BJ fan, donít like GSP at all, but GSP is fighting the best in the world constantly, as drawn out as that sounds.

Thiago Alves, Dan Hardy, and Josh Koscheck = All Top Ten.

Marius éaromskis, Hayato Sakurai, and KJ Noons

Not the worst competition, okay guys but not top ten, I know Sakurai was a long time ago, and Marius is the DREAM Champ, but would he beat Alves, Hardy, or Koscheck in a fight? Doubtful. Letís look at their upcoming fights.

GSPís next fight? Jake Shields.

Nick Diaz? Ö..Cyborg.

YeahÖ..Cyborg.

Cyborg is not a top ten guy, and heís really in there just for Diaz to beat, enough about the 170ís though, how aboutÖ.Light Heavyweight?

Dan Henderson is next for Feijao, okay.

Feijao has KO power, but letís be real, youíre not gonna KO Hendo. Henderson should win by making Feijao wrestle him, I think thatís likely, but whose next after Hendo/Feijao? Regardless of the winner.

Mousasi? Interesting fight, but we all saw his TDD get exposed against King Mo, a fight with Henderson goes the same way, Feijao would be different, itíd be fun while it lasted but Mousasi could easily take that fight. Would this even happen? Mousasiís the DREAM Champion at 205, he has business to take care of there.

Even after Mousasi, whose next? King Mo? Please.

What about the Heavyweights?

Some say they have a better Heavyweight Division than the UFC, I dispute that, we know for a fact, the UFCís number two is better than Strikeforceís number two, thatís all we know in regards to that. Strikeforce does have a nice Heavyweight division, they want to do an eight man tournament in 2011.

They have the talent, they also have Alistair Overeemís K-1 aspirations and M-1 to deal with, not to mention Barnett getting licensed in the states will be difficult.

They should just make Overeem vs. Werdum.

What about the Middleweights?

Well, thereís Mayhem, Robbie Lawler, and a few guys. Jacare is in my opinion leaps and bounds better than these guys, I think he could easily be number 2 in the world, number 1 when Anderson retires. They have a nice division but only Jacare stands out.

And the Lightweights?

Gilbert Melendez canít even get a fight, he might as well just pack his bags and head to the UFC, when you have to politic for a fight, as a Champion no less, something is really wrong.

Again, I like Strikeforce but Iíve not seen anything from that shows me theyíre a competitor, I think itís a shame DREAM canít get more of those guys, I believe theyíd make a much better number 2 to the UFC.

Yojimbo 12-25-2010 11:32 PM

I agree on most points. I don't think anyone was more exited about Strikeforce 18 months ago than I. There roster seemed great, production value was quite good, and most of all I was stoked that maybe they'd encroach on the UFC monopoly. Now I feel much different. Strikeforce has become a junkyard, where some great fighters are lying in waste, while rust sets in and they are forgotten forever. Part of me hopes they can sort things out, plug the gaping holes and make fights happen. While the other part wants their fighters to jump ship and head elsewhere (UFC).

Toxic 12-26-2010 01:40 AM

I understand they aren't on the UFC level but I don't get the Diaz hate as far as competition goes. I think he should fight Mayhem but that is not relative to his rankings. Diaz may not be GSP he may not be fighting the best but he is consistently fighting the best available competition and at least deserves that much respect.

Gilbert Melendez is desperately trying to seek out fights that will offer him relevance at the elite level of the LW division even offering to go up to WW to fight Paul Daley.

HexRei 12-26-2010 02:08 AM

strikeforce has trouble getting guys to take certain fights because they don't have a lot of leverage over their fighters like the UFC does. obviously i have to agree they are far from a neck and neck competitor to the UFC but their shows are entertaining and they have their own little niche as a house for fighters that are strong but for whatever reason aren't in the UFC. also they do female fights which while not a powerful draw is another established niche.

KillerShark1985 12-26-2010 02:22 AM

You know for a fact that the top 2 fighters in the HW division at the UFC are better than the top 2 at SF because JDS beat Werdum and Werdum beat Fedor so that makes UFC better, are you kidding.

if your going to play that game then I bet I can make Kimbo Slice one of the top HW's who ever existed;

Kimbo beat Houston Alexander beat Keith Jardine beat Brandon Vera beat Frank Mir beat Big Nog beat Rodriguez beat Arlovski beat Werdum beat Fedor who beat everyone on the way and every angle from there.

So now are you going to argue that Kimbo is the new GOAT or do you see how pathetic your argument is, where did you rank Serra when he was champ?

Werdum is top 5 at SF at best he is living higher on a fluke victory nothing more.

I dont think anyone denys that the UFC is miles ahead in the MW, WW and LW divisions, but at HW SF has at least 3 of the top 5 HW's in the world, including the top 2 (Overeem and Fedor)

And I for one would like to see the fading quality in the LHW division at the UFC put to the test against the current SF LHW division, its arguable they have the best wrestler out of the 2 divisions in King Mo, its unquestionable they have the best Submission artist in Roger Gracie, in fact submission quality wise at LHW I would give them the top 3 without a doubt.

And its questionable that they could have a in his prime champ that could take out the some what unlucky injury prone champ who is not even well rounded, maybe its just possible he was able to take No.1 spot in a weaker division, maybe Karate was able to rise to the top of a week MMA division, maybe the lack of submission artist in the UFC division is allowing there young up and coming wrestlers to be over aggressive in top position, I would love to see how Jones would posture himself up against someone like Roger Gracie on the ground for example.

Hay but the UFC does not need to prove its fighters in combat, it just needs to tell people hard and loud that it has the best fighters, but never do there fighters have to go out and fight the others from outside the UFC's protective wing to prove themselves, not like SF fighters like Mousasi has done becoming the new Dream LHW champ.

But hay thats all OK because the UFC is a business right, the sport does not matter to them its all just business and since it would be bad for business for them to allow there fighters to fight outside the UFC or to co-promote, fuk it they dont have to.

Even tho its only bad for business if there fighters loose, it there fighters win they its good for them because it strengthens there claim to have the very best, Fedor wanted to fight Randy Couture when he was UFC HW champ but as a one off without signing for the UFC, what do you think would of happened if that fight had took place, why do you think the UFC never of allowed it?

EliteUndisputed 12-26-2010 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerShark1985 (Post 1327682)
You know for a fact that the top 2 fighters in the HW division at the UFC are better than the top 2 at SF because JDS beat Werdum and Werdum beat Fedor so that makes UFC better, are you kidding.

if your going to play that game then I bet I can make Kimbo Slice one of the top HW's who ever existed;

Kimbo beat Houston Alexander beat Keith Jardine beat Brandon Vera beat Frank Mir beat Big Nog beat Rodriguez beat Arlovski beat Werdum beat Fedor who beat everyone on the way and every angle from there.

So now are you going to argue that Kimbo is the new GOAT or do you see how pathetic your argument is, where did you rank Serra when he was champ?

Werdum is top 5 at SF at best he is living higher on a fluke victory nothing more.

I dont think anyone denys that the UFC is miles ahead in the MW, WW and LW divisions, but at HW SF has at least 3 of the top 5 HW's in the world, including the top 2 (Overeem and Fedor)

And I for one would like to see the fading quality in the LHW division at the UFC put to the test against the current SF LHW division, its arguable they have the best wrestler out of the 2 divisions in King Mo, its unquestionable they have the best Submission artist in Roger Gracie, in fact submission quality wise at LHW I would give them the top 3 without a doubt.

And its questionable that they could have a in his prime champ that could take out the some what unlucky injury prone champ who is not even well rounded, maybe its just possible he was able to take No.1 spot in a weaker division, maybe Karate was able to rise to the top of a week MMA division, maybe the lack of submission artist in the UFC division is allowing there young up and coming wrestlers to be over aggressive in top position, I would love to see how Jones would posture himself up against someone like Roger Gracie on the ground for example.

Hay but the UFC does not need to prove its fighters in combat, it just needs to tell people hard and loud that it has the best fighters, but never do there fighters have to go out and fight the others from outside the UFC's protective wing to prove themselves, not like SF fighters like Mousasi has done becoming the new Dream LHW champ.

But hay thats all OK because the UFC is a business right, the sport does not matter to them its all just business and since it would be bad for business for them to allow there fighters to fight outside the UFC or to co-promote, fuk it they dont have to.

Even tho its only bad for business if there fighters loose, it there fighters win they its good for them because it strengthens there claim to have the very best, Fedor wanted to fight Randy Couture when he was UFC HW champ but as a one off without signing for the UFC, what do you think would of happened if that fight had took place, why do you think the UFC never of allowed it?

Who said Cain and Junior were better than Overeem and Werdum?

It IS proven that Junior can and has beat Werdum, thus the UFC's top contender is better than Strikeforce's top contender. You took your argument in a completely different direction, using MMAmath could Junior beat Fedor? Who knows but that's not the topic, what is know is that when they fought Junior KO'ed Fabricio. When talking about the Heavyweight divisions and how they would stack up against each other, it's all speculation except that fight because it's happened and we know Junior can KO Werdum.

Mike28 12-27-2010 03:28 PM

I agree with some points. Strikeforce has some guys who I think can do really well in the UFC. But other than the HW division, Strikeforce does not have a lot of depth. I do believe Overeem, Fedor, Werdum, Silva are very good fighters. I think Overeem would do well in the UFC but he doesn't fight often enough in MMA. The LHW division is not deep at all. I really like Feijao and think he would do well in the UFC and we all know Henderson was very good in the UFC as well. Mousassi is good but i don't think he would be top 5 in the UFC. In the MW division I really like Jacare and Mayhem. I think they would do well in the UFC as well. Outside of that there is not much depth there. WW only really has Diaz and Daley is top fighters. Cyborg is not a top 10 WW. LW there is really only Milendez. He needs to go to the UFC quickly. There is nothing for him in Strikeforce other than a fight with Noons but he is coming off a loss.

joshua7789 12-27-2010 03:43 PM

My biggest issue with Strikeforce is how they have dealt with Fedor. They had him fight Rogers and then Werdum. Rogers was in no way ready to take on the number one HW in the world. Then they had Fedor fight Werdum. On paper, that looked like a huge gimme fight. Well, Werdum shocked the world and caught Fedor. Good for him, but its clear that Strikeforce or M1 or whoever the hell makes the choices in that clusterfunk has been doing there best to pick favorable match ups for Fedor. That is pretty damn lame in my book. People can say what they want about the UFC, but they do not try to protect a guy from tough fights just because he is a big draw. Liddell fought Couture three times, Rampage, Shogun, Rashad, and Franklin. Lesnar is the biggest draw in mma and he got Couture, Mir twice, Carwin, and Cain. That is why I have a lot more respect for the UFC then I do for Strikeforce.

EliteUndisputed 12-27-2010 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshua7789 (Post 1328306)
My biggest issue with Strikeforce is how they have dealt with Fedor. They had him fight Rogers and then Werdum. Rogers was in no way ready to take on the number one HW in the world. Then they had Fedor fight Werdum. On paper, that looked like a huge gimme fight. Well, Werdum shocked the world and caught Fedor. Good for him, but its clear that Strikeforce or M1 or whoever the hell makes the choices in that clusterfunk has been doing there best to pick favorable match ups for Fedor. That is pretty damn lame in my book. People can say what they want about the UFC, but they do not try to protect a guy from tough fights just because he is a big draw. Liddell fought Couture three times, Rampage, Shogun, Rashad, and Franklin. Lesnar is the biggest draw in mma and he got Couture, Mir twice, Carwin, and Cain. That is why I have a lot more respect for the UFC then I do for Strikeforce.

He also fought Jeremy Horn, Babalu and Tito, if anything Chuck had one of the most padded records in MMA, atleast while he was Champion.

joshua7789 12-27-2010 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EliteUndisputed (Post 1328334)
He also fought Jeremy Horn, Babalu and Tito, if anything Chuck had one of the most padded records in MMA, atleast while he was Champion.

He had a loss to Horn when he fought him. He was champion when he fought Rampage, who he already had one loss to. Tito was considered top ten when Chuck fought him. Thats far from a padded record.


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