Scott Coker: Overeem's Title WILL NOT BE On The Line In The Tournament!!!!!!! - Page 6 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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post #51 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-14-2011, 07:49 AM
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Makes sense to me, seemed a bit odd having 3 titles within a tournament, the only thing that makes this wierd is the Champ is in the GP but we've all wanted Overeem fighting guys like Werdum, Fedor etc for ages so lets just get on with it!

Ideally he could vacate it and the GP crowns the new SF HW Champion, but that doesn't make sense and Overeem has this belt fetish going on so doubt he will entertain the idea.
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post #52 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-14-2011, 09:01 AM
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This really doesn't seem like the commissions were a problem...

Quote:
The promotion originally intended for its heavyweight belt to be contested three times during the tournament -- first, in April, when Overeem is scheduled to meet Fabricio Werdum. However, Coker said, to "make it simple" he opted against having the title available or pushing for each tournament stage to feature five-round bouts, which is allowed under the Unified Rules of mixed martial arts.

Regulators in California, Missouri, New Jersey and Tennessee told ESPN.com they would have agreed to five-round, non-title tournament fights, yet Coker laid responsibility for the decision at the feet of states he declined to name.

"There was some confusion in the beginning but I said all along, unless we get all the commissions on the same page it would be a difficult thing to do," Coker said during a teleconference. "We didn't feel it was fair for one person to fight five rounds, another person to fight three rounds. There was debate about, well, should the final fight be a title fight? But what if Alistair wasn't there? It just became very confusing. We felt this would be a great way to launch the tournament and we're very happy about it.

"We would have to have all those commissions on the same page and we just couldn't do it in time."

Nick Lembo, counsel to the New Jersey State Athletic Control Board, said Thursday that Strikeforce never approached him or the commission about the possibility of five-round fights for the February event at the IZOD Center, which features quarterfinal matches pitting Fedor Emelianenko against Antonio Silva, and Andrei Arlovski versus Sergei Kharitonov.

"For the tournament fights or alternate fights, I had no problems with it going five five-minute rounds," Lembo said.
Source. My emphasis.

So, the problem was getting all the commissions on the same page, but they never even asked the commission where the first fights are taking place? It sounds like they didn't even try to get them on the same page. California, where Strikeforce holds half their events, was cool with it too.

Maybe it was one of those four states that will give Barnett a license with a clean urine sample that wasn't on board. But if they'll grant a license to Barnett (which an mmajunkie article said the most influencial commissions like California, Nevada, and New Jersey were unlikely to do) why would five round fights be so egregious to them?

The article also mentions the committee and 4th judge:


Quote:
Prior to being asked about it by ESPN.com on Thursday, Lembo was also unaware of Strikeforce's intention to use a fourth judge, independent of the three assigned by whichever regulatory body oversees that event, to determine an advancing fighter in case of a draw.

"Strikeforce could utilize a fourth judge for their own tournament advancement purposes, but the fourth judge would not be an NJSACB judge, and such would not effect the official recorded result," Lembo said.

While a fighter would continue onto the next round of the tournament, his official record would reflect the result as a draw, Strikeforce rules director Cory Schafer confirmed. The fourth judge would score the fight as a whole, similar to Pride Fighting Championships' old scoring method.

In the event of a no-contest, a five-member World Grand Prix Heavyweight Tournament review committee headed by Schafer, will determine the advancing fighter. This committee is also tasked with selecting from a pool of main draw and reserve participants in the event that fighters cannot continue because of injury or something similar. A fighter disqualified during tournament action is ineligible to advance.

Joining Schafer are Dale "Apollo" Cook, a retired world kickboxing champion from Tulsa, Okla.; Al Wichgers, a veteran judge and referee licensed in 14 states based in Milwaukee, Wisc.; retired MMA pioneer Guy Mezger, of Dallas, Texas; and Steve Alley, a fight promoter out of Denver, Colo.

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post #53 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-14-2011, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by limba View Post
Remember PRIDE!

They had 2 champions:
1. one champion had let's say the heavyweight belt, just like in the UFC
2. they had tournaments/Grand Prix: MW, HW and Open Weight and the winner got a belt too.

They had more than one champion!

I didn't see this coming!!!
This...

I figured this was coming. I have no problem with the belt not being on the line for a tournament. The winner definitely should get a shot for the belt, however.
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post #54 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-14-2011, 10:50 AM
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Overeem is such a f**king p*ssy, its not like its an actual one night tournament, these are all separate fights that just happened to work out as a tournament. Overeem lose's and he is still the HW champion... thats just total BS imo. If they wanted all 3rd round fights thats fine but at the very least the winner of this tournament should still be crowned the champion, simple as that. If Overeem does manage to get beat, SF is gonna look like a total joke.

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post #55 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-14-2011, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by _RIVAL_ View Post
Coker didn't make this decision.

The commissions wouldn't sanction 5 round fights in the tournament.
I still think because of the state SF is in, and how stupid whack its been, i still say the winner of the HW tourney should leave with the belt...

But whatever.... All good fights... It would just be truly annoying if Fedor beats Overeem in the tourney and loses the title fight lol

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post #56 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-14-2011, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DJ Syko View Post
Overeem is such a f**king p*ssy, its not like its an actual one night tournament, these are all separate fights that just happened to work out as a tournament. Overeem lose's and he is still the HW champion... thats just total BS imo. If they wanted all 3rd round fights thats fine but at the very least the winner of this tournament should still be crowned the champion, simple as that. If Overeem does manage to get beat, SF is gonna look like a total joke.

And why does this make Overeem a p*ssy?!
I don't get it!!
You know he is fighting in the tournament, right?
He didn't back out of it! He wanted to participate in the tournament and fight whoever they'll put in fron of him.

It's not his fault SF couldn't make the fights 5 rounders.

So excuse me, if i ask again?! Why is he a p**sy?!

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post #57 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-14-2011, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SmackyBear View Post
This really doesn't seem like the commissions were a problem...



Source. My emphasis.

So, the problem was getting all the commissions on the same page, but they never even asked the commission where the first fights are taking place? It sounds like they didn't even try to get them on the same page. California, where Strikeforce holds half their events, was cool with it too.

Maybe it was one of those four states that will give Barnett a license with a clean urine sample that wasn't on board. But if they'll grant a license to Barnett (which an mmajunkie article said the most influencial commissions like California, Nevada, and New Jersey were unlikely to do) why would five round fights be so egregious to them?

The article also mentions the committee and 4th judge:
So the only question would remain if the states in question where where the events were planned and if one or two were but one wasn't than an opening round of 5 rounds in the tourney leading to a second round of 3 rounds fights would kinda be akward as well..

Either way TBH I'm surprised that Alastair is competing here. Trust me I'm happy he is, but I figured this tournament was for a number 1 contender spot..

Either way at least these fights are taking place. IMO and they are superfights that I've wanted to see for a long time.

Not much could really ruin this for me except a bullshit decison, a cut stoppage or an injury pull out.. anything else is going straight past my radar and I'm gonna watch these guys wreck some shit.


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post #58 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-14-2011, 12:46 PM
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atm I am not seeing the title not been on the line as a good thing since the winner no matter who may prevail would be a very worthy HW champion and it would take away all agmosity surrounding the SF HW belt and the fact it has not been defended regularly since its creation.

Fights wise yea no question that this is going to be one kick ass tourney with loads of fights to enjoy that all MMA fans should love to watch, but it really could of killed 2 birds with one stone and made the SF HW title the No.1 HW belt to hold hands down, where as now the GP belt is going to carry a lot more statue.

If the Reem wins and finish's all his fights within 3 rounds, which is a real huge possibility here, then you can forget about everything and just say yea the No.1 HW in the world is the SF HW champ and all can be forgotten, they could even unite the belts under the Reem and nobody could argue his legit claim to the title.

This can be turned into a good thing having 2 belts in the HW division as long as they run future GP's of this nature to allow the GP title to defended in the future, and just have the SF HW belt defended separately, which works out good as long as this is not a one off tournament, and they bring through future talent to take part.

If this tournament is a huge success and is repeated hell we may even see guys doing well in the UFC think screw this I want to compete in the SF GP in the near future, this could even force the UFC to start co-promoting so we can see these dream fights like Cain vs Fedor and JDS vs Overeem, the only thing standing in the way of this right now it the UFC policy against co-promotion but after they lose there No1 status surrounding having the best fighters, they maybe left with no choice but to let there fighters go out there and try to win it back.


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post #59 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-14-2011, 01:03 PM
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Killer the cross promotion and testing the "circuit" argument is getting really old. The UFC is never going to co-promote and Strikeforce will eventually fold no matter how much you hope against it.

The Reem is an awesome fighter and could definitely be the Number one in the world. Without testing himself against the UFC's top fighters though it's all speculation. We need all the top guys under one banner to really see who's the best.

You should be rooting for the UFC to get all the top guys instead of the other way around anyway. This isn't even a GP like they keep saying. It's the same thing the UFC has done the past 18 months or so without labeling it a tournament.

I can't wait for the fights either but for Strikeforce to act like this is a reincarnation of the 2000GP is ridiculous
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post #60 of 107 (permalink) Old 01-14-2011, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerShark1985 View Post
atm I am not seeing the title not been on the line as a good thing since the winner no matter who may prevail would be a very worthy HW champion and it would take away all agmosity surrounding the SF HW belt and the fact it has not been defended regularly since its creation.

Fights wise yea no question that this is going to be one kick ass tourney with loads of fights to enjoy that all MMA fans should love to watch, but it really could of killed 2 birds with one stone and made the SF HW title the No.1 HW belt to hold hands down, where as now the GP belt is going to carry a lot more statue.

If the Reem wins and finish's all his fights within 3 rounds, which is a real huge possibility here, then you can forget about everything and just say yea the No.1 HW in the world is the SF HW champ and all can be forgotten, they could even unite the belts under the Reem and nobody could argue his legit claim to the title.

This can be turned into a good thing having 2 belts in the HW division as long as they run future GP's of this nature to allow the GP title to defended in the future, and just have the SF HW belt defended separately, which works out good as long as this is not a one off tournament, and they bring through future talent to take part.

If this tournament is a huge success and is repeated hell we may even see guys doing well in the UFC think screw this I want to compete in the SF GP in the near future, this could even force the UFC to start co-promoting so we can see these dream fights like Cain vs Fedor and JDS vs Overeem, the only thing standing in the way of this right now it the UFC policy against co-promotion but after they lose there No1 status surrounding having the best fighters, they maybe left with no choice but to let there fighters go out there and try to win it back.
Strikeforce has DREAM champion, WAMMA champion and Strikeforce champion, and this year we'll get the fourth unofficial title - Strikeforce GP champion, which will become the most meaningful among all. Hopefully, all of them will merge into one and UFC HW title will have a solid competition. On the other hand, the possibility of Overeem (possibly being the titles holder) leaving SF and joining Dana's crew would be high. In the event that he signs, Strikeforce is doomed. From this standpoint, management should root for Fedor because he won't go to UFC, he already unofficially dedicated himself to SF, Overeem "Destroyer" didn't, and if he smashes everyone and takes off, it's not good for neither DREAM nor Strikeforce... and for K-1.

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