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Old 02-14-2011, 02:54 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rockybalboa25 View Post
2. This is mma not K-1. Do we rank Brock higher for his real wrestling pedigree. No that is just an aspect of mma, just like kickboxing. While we are at let's rate Herschell Walker high, he was dominant in football. Talent doesn't make ranking wins do. Overeem had an average LHW career and hasn't beaten anyone good at HW. What he has done in another sport is irrelevant.

3. I think JDS win's that fight but that's opinion. What isn't an opinion is record, and the fact that he knocked out your #4.
4. Again this is mma. Damian Maia is ranked any higher for what he has done outside mma, neither is Werdum. A respectable UFC record 2-2. Ko'd but JDS, and all his other fights were against guys who have been cut from the UFC. A win over Fedor doesn't mean as much as it used to, and Silva just isn't that goodt.
5. Silva's only win over a credible top 10 fighter was last night. He hasn't proven himself. Potential doesn't make rankings. Rankings are based on achievements.
6. First off I don't think Fedor should have been #1. I don't think that anyone could argue GSP isn't #1. Secondly it would be hard to drop GSP that far because he's beaten all the other guys below him. Think of 5 top 10 WW that GSP hasn't beaten. Fedor hasn't that's the difference.
7. Lesnar was the consensus #1 by every ranking system out there when he fought Velasquez. I would back him in a rematch against Carwin. I think Lesnar could beat him again. Which he did. Did it matter in your rankings that Rogers won the first round against Fedor, or that Big Nog has been losing in almost every fight before he wins? Of course not a win is a win. Lesnar also has wins over ranked opponents Carwin and Mir, and since I guess we're counting undeserved rankings Couture.
8. No he beat Mir who at the time was ranked very high. I can agree that an argument can be made that he should be 6 or 7.
9. Let's see who Barnett has beat that's ranked in the top 10: Over four years ago he won a split decision against Big Nog that was later avenged by Nog. That's it. Yes he's beaten Rizzo after that meant anything and descent but not great fighters like Monson, Hunt, and Aleks. He has lost to CroCop 3 times, Nog, and Rizzo. Also we don't know if he can win in the US, where there is steroid testing. He has beaten Rizzo and Yvel, other than that the last time he won a fight in the US without roids is Bobby Hoffman in 2001.
10. Rogers is not even closet to being as dangerous as Carwin. Carwin has more power and really good wrestling. Rogers threw one good right hand once against Arlovksi. His boxing is sloppy. He has no other abilities. He has no wins over top tier opponents. If you need a fighter to put here that's not in the UFC put Karitonov here instead. Rogers is a can plain and simple.

I think it's interesting that the only way you think someone can think UFC fighters should be ranked highly is by hype or being a hugger. Right there you show your bias. If you go on recent records, which is what rankings are based on then you couldn't rank your list that way.
and your not basing your opinion on all the UFC hype then, without going though all your points to point out how UFC biased you are, I think most MMA fans will see that for themselves, I will jump straight to No.10

Carwin also has very sloppy boxing and very low hands, which for a guy of his size who lacks real speed like say Anderson Silva is going to get him KTFO when he runs into he elite strikers out there at HW, and if you think his rise to the top 10 was so much more Superior to Rogers rise to the top 10 then that is nothing more than been UFC biased, which you are always anyway, Brock Lesnar the best HW ever remember?" after his hand fed career to become champion, I recall you as one of his biggest followers just echoing everything DW had to say about him, I see you still follow that trend of following DW opinions no matter how biased they are.

I would love to see your top 10 list even tho it would be so UFC biased it would just be UFC top 10 list.
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:58 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Fedor losing actually made me more interested in the tournament, was a nice surprise
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:59 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Mir since got the win against the fading out the ranking very quickly version of Cro Cop in what was also an unconvincing overall performance, while Rogers gets smashed by arguably the most dangerous HW of the top level, this is enough to turn the knifes edge back in Mir's favor, then like you say Rogers does come back with a win of his own against a lower level opponent, this is not enough to rise him up the ranks significantly but it does him no harm in the sense that he is not losing rank following a win, and brings thus brings him up to close to Mir to call.
I mean lets be real. Humphrey is far from anything. As much of a down fall Gonzo is he is still more relevant than Humphrey.

The thing about it is Mir has fought decent guys all along. Even beating a guy like Hardonk is more credible than most of anything Rogers has done. As overrated as Kongo is (which he is far overrated) at least a submission specialist (mir) dropped his ass...then sub'd him. As bad as Big Nog has been, he was still teh first to stop him. I mean he has more than 1 fight. Rogers has 1 fight vs. a guy that hasn't been in the top 10 for a couple years and who was damaged goods after the KO loss to Fedor.

I am not giving AA credit. I won't. He has boxing skills, but he is getting KO'd left and right...a fight with a one-dimensional guy known for power is a terrible matchup.

I just don't see how Sergei isn't on your list but Rogers is. Sergei just matched his best win. And has had way more success against better competition his whole career.

I get the Carwin comparison. But to mean...if I am going to give Overeem the benefit of the doubt for being such a good striker with no HW resume...then I give the nod huge to Carwin for his wrestling background and ability. Carwin is an average gas tank away from being undefeated.
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:24 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Sergei does make a good case for edging on the thin line of a top 10 place that Roger and Mir both currently also walk along, very soon the picture will become very clear, if we can't separate after Barnett vs Rogers fight, we sure as hell will be able to separate after the winner of that fight faces Sergei.

But I but him on the list anyway as another possible No.10 at the moment since there is so very little in it between some positions, like you say he matched Rogers victory over AA, and has a very solid record, lets not forget that beating Overeem at the time he beat Overeem was not as creditable as gaining a win over him now he was a completely different fighter back then, so that does not jump him as much as it may seem in current rankings holding past wins over the Reem and Werdum, and only fighting once in both 2008 and 2009 against low ranked opponents and losing to one of them did not do his ranking any favors and is yet to face a certain top level fighter since then with AA's record been so much in question in just how much he has fell since beating Roy Nelson only 2 years ago.


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Fedor losing actually made me more interested in the tournament, was a nice surprise
Same here, as much as I wanted to see Fedor vs Reem, I am now a lot more interested in Bigfoot vs Reem, Bigfoot has really opened to doors now to step into the star light.

Not only am I interested in this tournament as much as ever, there are fights I want to see after possible elimination scenarios, like now for example I would love to see Arlovski va Griggs, and if Bigfoot should lose to say the Reem (without meaning to write Werdum off but I only give him a 10/90 split chance) in the semi finals I would still love to see him fighter Rogers, Barnett and Sergei at some point in the future, there are tons of good follow up fights for SF to run after this tourney.
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:51 PM   #25 (permalink)
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This is how it's going to go down (write this down).

Brett (human bowling pin) will get taken down and GnPed for 3 rounds, but probably not a finish.

Sergei will then stuff Barnett with ease and knock him out.

On the other side, Overeem will knock both Werdum and Antonio Silva out - KO or TKO with ease.

Sergei V Overeem in the final - I would say Sergei has a chance, though I think there will be a clinch or two were Overeem hurts Sergei badly and KOs/TKOs him.
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Old 02-14-2011, 05:04 PM   #26 (permalink)
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This is how it's going to go down (write this down).

Brett (human bowling pin) will get taken down and GnPed for 3 rounds, but probably not a finish.

Sergei will then stuff Barnett with ease and knock him out.

On the other side, Overeem will knock both Werdum and Antonio Silva out - KO or TKO with ease.

Sergei V Overeem in the final - I would say Sergei has a chance, though I think there will be a clinch or two were Overeem hurts Sergei badly and KOs/TKOs him.
That would certify the Reems place as No.1 HW without question, Rogers would be out of the top 10 and Barnett would maybe also drop out depending on what happens in the UFC during this time but its more thn liekly he would drop, Sergei woudl be in there floating around the top 5ish give or take, maybe still under Big foot and Werdum, and it would make for a great follow up fight between Sergei and Big Foot which I would really like to see
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Old 02-14-2011, 05:29 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Fedor losing actually made me more interested in the tournament, was a nice surprise
Same here
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:07 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Since there is so much debate here's how I would rank the top ten.

1. Cain-he's undefeated and beat the former consensus #1. He obviously deserves to be here.
2. JDS-he has only 1 loss early on and wins over Werdum, Gonzaga (who's not great, but isn't a can like Humphrey), and CroCop
3. Brock Lesnar-look this is the one I would accept the most critism on. If you think Werdum has the right to be here I wouldn't argue. He has a wins over Carwin, Mir, Couture, and Herring. While Herring and Couture aren't great, Couture was better at the time of the fight than either AA or Syliva have been post-UFC
4. Werdum-wins over Fedor, Syliva, Gonzaga, and Overeem
5. Shane Carwin-wins over Mir and Gonzaga with his only loss to coming to Lesnar
6. Frank Mir while Mir has lost twice recently He is 5 out of his last 7 with win over Big Nog, Lesnar, Congo, and Cro cop
7. Antonio Silva-wins over AA and Fedor with his only recent loss to Werdum (the best HW in strikeforce).
8. Fedor once the greatest HW in the world has dropped due lack of recent wins over quality opponents and back to back losses. However he is still a very dangerous fighter that can end the fight at anytime on the feet.
9. Sergei Kharitnov-would be higher if not for the loss to Monson, but is still 4-1 in his last 5. He Ko'd overeem and AA. Also holds a PRIDE win over Werdum.
10. Alastair Overeem-had a lackluster LHW career with only 1 quality win. Beefed up to heavyweight hasn't beaten any legit HWs since a split decision win over Kharitnov.

Here's how the rest of the tournament goes. Werdum pulls off the upset and submits Overeem in the third round. Barnett Ko's Rogers in round 1, but tests positive for steroids. Werdum beats Silva by decision again. Fedor steps in for Barnett and armbars Kharitnov. Werdum and Fedor fight again and Werdum wins by decision this time.
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:02 PM   #29 (permalink)
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It will be a long time before there is another Emelianenko Fedor. If ever.

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Old 02-15-2011, 10:43 PM   #30 (permalink)
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It will be a long time before there is another Emelianenko Fedor. If ever.

Mos def as far as record is concerned. Fedor was 31-1 before these last two fights, 31-3 by the time he is 34 Take a guy like Cain, who I think is the best HW out there hands down. He's 9-0 for him to get close to that he would have 22-3 over the next 6 years, that's more than four fights a year. He have to have no injuries in that time and fight every three months. Fedor's record is like Marciano's in boxing, it will probably never be matched. Will there be fighters of different generations that you can argue would be able to beat him in his prime, but that's part of the fun of combat sports, comparing guys of different eras.
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