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Old 02-11-2007, 02:54 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I was so pissed I dvr'd this fight and it cut off! I went for 2hrs 15 mins as it was in the guide, but the last thing I saw was Renzo get a neck brace and that was it. Can anybody fill me in (that saw it) on what happened after that? I know it ended up being DQ'd but did they interview anybody? Was it a doctor stoppage thing or just Herb?
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Old 02-11-2007, 03:02 AM   #22 (permalink)
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They didn't interview Renzo but showed him being helped away to the hospital. They interviewed Shamrock in the ring, who totally no sold the fact that he was repeatedly warned for illegal blows, then kneed Renzo twice more to get DQ'd. The majority of what he said was "I'm old school and I came to fight."
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Old 02-11-2007, 03:29 AM   #23 (permalink)
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IMO Renzo was on his way to a decision victory. Shamrock's strike's weren't that crisp. He got taken down easily too many times. He is pretty tough to put a submission on, but he was still being controlled. It looked like the second round was going to look like the first, and I believe it would have, had the bout continued. And the third would look the same. Renzo by decision, had the bout continued. IMO
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Old 02-11-2007, 03:32 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brief
IMO Renzo was on his way to a decision victory. Shamrock's strike's weren't that crisp. He got taken down easily too many times. He is pretty tough to put a submission on, but he was still being controlled. It looked like the second round was going to look like the first, and I believe it would have, had the bout continued. And the third would look the same. Renzo by decision, had the bout continued. IMO
Interesting view. I'm still waiting for someone to post the fight so I can see it firsthand.
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Old 02-11-2007, 04:42 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Now im not gonna say I know what exactly happened but I noticed acouple things.
1. Renzo was definantly winning rounds 1 and 2

2.The knees looked intentinal (to me)

3.Shamrock didnt seem to care when he loss

So this leaves me with one question...Whats worst loosing fair and sqaure or getting DQed so you could get a second chance at a fight your appearing to loose?

Now this may not be the case but do you think its possible Frank knew he was loosing and DQed himself knowing he could get a rematch? I mean he didnt seem to give a crap he loss the fight, he could have actaully been releaved. Plus you can see him grabing around Renzos head and looking at his neck while he kneed it.Possibly Frank DQed himself so he wouldnt legitimently loose. Im definantly not saying this is what happend. Just something to think about. This fight was definantly odd and there are some unanswered questions.but the truth is only known by Frank and Renzo. Keep in mind I practice BJJ so I am biased towards Renzo.

Also I dont see why so many of you are saying "Frank would have won anyway" Renzo was basically taking Shammrock down at will and he may have not afflicted tons of damage on Frank but he was defiantly neutralizing him. Frank had no answer for Renzos ground game other than throughing illgeal knees.

The bottom line is Renzo got the win in a fight which looked like he was on his way to winning.
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Old 02-11-2007, 04:44 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kds13
frank was winning the fight.
WHAT!? Did you watch this fight or just see the sherdog play-by-play. Its very apparent that Renzo was controlling Shamrock in the fight. You should watch the fight again Renzo was doing good IMO.
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Old 02-11-2007, 04:59 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMA1990
WHAT!? Did you watch this fight or just see the sherdog play-by-play. Its very apparent that Renzo was controlling Shamrock in the fight. You should watch the fight again Renzo was doing good IMO.
I dunno man, he might have landed the takedowns but Frank was certainly doing much more damage from the bottom. Those liver shot knees are brutal. Renzo was getting tired, and I m not just saying that cause Frank said so.

The shots were more to the back of the neck, not head - I dont know what happened to the "tough" Renzo. He used to be cool. When Cesar came out, he had the "we just screwed you over" look on his face, it all seems awful sketchy to me.
Renzo was really doing a lot of the Lay n Gay ... I dont think I ve ever dissed lay and pray guys like Arona, but Renzo had side control and couldnt do a damn thing. It was pathetic, I used to really like the guy - the Saku fight is legendary, but that was awful. Then again, the Gracies found a way to win. Whooooohoooo.
Mehhh...I m disgruntled and disappointed
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Old 02-11-2007, 05:15 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Renzo was definitely winning the fight IMO. He was taking Shamrock down almost at will, he controlled the fight on the ground, and I just don't think Shamrock did enough damage with strikes to win either round. I'm not saying Renzo was completely dominating, but I just see him winning on the scorecards.

He definitely answered alot of questions about where Shamrock is as a fighter at this point in his career. It's sad that Renzo is the best fighter that Shamrock has fought since Tito in 99. I hope he wakes up now.
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Old 02-11-2007, 05:17 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grabaka
Renzo was definitely winning the fight IMO. He was taking Shamrock down almost at will, he controlled the fight on the ground, and I just don't think Shamrock did enough damage with strikes to win either round. I'm not saying Renzo was completely dominating, but I just see him winning on the scorecards.

He definitely answered alot of questions about where Shamrock is as a fighter at this point in his career. It's sad that Renzo is the best fighter that Shamrock has fought since Tito in 99. I hope he wakes up now.
maybe he will wake up just on time for Baroni to put him to sleep
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Old 02-11-2007, 11:14 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calibretto9
Sounds like Renzo was tired and was taking the win no matter how he had to get it. Laugh out friggin' loud.
I can't believe so many of you are commenting on the fight when you haven't even seen it.

Renzo was controlling the entire fight. He took Frank down multiple times and once they were on the ground Renzo was dominating Frank. Renzo always kept a very tight side control and was starting to set things up (such as an armbar). However, showtime apparently has a rule that if you are not active enough on the ground then they start a 15 sec timer. After the 15 seconds are up the ref stands them back up. When this happened, it looked like Renzo might have been working towards an armbar. These rules were a huge advantage to Frank. Let me ask you this, where is the rule that says if there is not enough action in the stand up the ref can stop the fight and put both fighters on the ground? All of this talk about "Renzo was tired and about to go out" is rediculous. Anyone in this thread that has said that has just proven to everyone they know nothing about this fight. Renzo was ON TOP of Frank for almost the ENTIRE FIGHT.

First, what you guys need to understand is that there are many steps in BJJ. Even basic things like armbars require steps you must take for it to work. You can't just grab a guys hand and try to throw your legs around him. Renzo was being patient because he didn't want to let Frank get back up.

Second, what none of you seem to know is that if you have someone in side control you can take your knee (the one closest to your opponents head) and just slam it down on his head. However, the rules dont allow that. So if there was no "no knees to the head" rule, Renzo could have done a lot of damage to Frank if he wanted to.

Quote:
but the gracie way is really falling by the wayside. they're all great fighters, but other fighters have not only caught up to them, they've surpased them in ability.
Wow. You couldn't be more wrong. This fight proved that the Gracie way still works just like it did years ago. I have already said this, but for the slow learners, Renzo closed the distance, took Frank down multiple times. Once they were on the ground Frank had no chance of getting up. All he could do was knee Renzo to the body and head. He couldn't get back to half guard, he couldn't go belly down and grab both of Renzo's leg to get out of side control, he couldn't do ANYTHING. If they were actually allowed to keep the fight on the ground then Renzo would have probably gotten a submission.

You guys do know that one of the times Frank was on his back he actually looked up at the ref as if to say "Renzo is being active, please help me and stand the fight back up." That isn't a sign of a fighter who is about to win. That is a sign of a fighter who doesn't have a good enough ground game to get back to his feet and he wants the refs help. Renzo wasn't inactive, Frank was. This is happening more and more in MMA now. Fighters learn just enough BJJ to be able to defend a little bit. Once the fights hits the ground they do everything they can to stall. All they try to do is stall long enough so the fight can be stood back up. Frank was the one stalling.

Last edited by mma1357 : 02-11-2007 at 11:18 AM.
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