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Old 02-11-2007, 10:48 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MMA1990
Now im not gonna say I know what exactly happened but I noticed acouple things.
1. Renzo was definantly winning rounds 1 and 2

2.The knees looked intentinal (to me)

3.Shamrock didnt seem to care when he loss
1. Agreed. Frank won the standup portions, but was taken down with ease, and controlled.

2. The knee's were definitely intentional. After getting warned by Herb Dean, Frank still throws them? What the hell?

3. Of course he doesn't care. Frank can now piss & moan about the DQ, and people will still believe in his carny folk talk. Frank is my all time favorite, but he didn't win me over last night. I will say that he was in full unintentional hilarity though.

Frank really needs to release a comedy album. Just have him talk about how great he is, and how he likes to sword fight.

This main event sucked. I hope Baroni destroy's Frankie.
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Old 02-11-2007, 10:56 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damone
2. The knee's were definitely intentional. After getting warned by Herb Dean, Frank still throws them? What the hell?
Exactly.

I just watched the fight again and noticed something very important. Frank had his arm around Renzo's head and was pulling his head towards him, after he would pull Renzo's head he would then move his arm completely out of the way and then knee Renzo in the same spot his arm used to be. He did this twice. He would pull his head, move his arm and then knee Renzo. If Frank didn't know where his knees were landing and was just "fighting" then how did he know to move his arm away from Renzo's head right before his knee would hit Renzo?
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Old 02-11-2007, 11:21 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Gracie was winning that fight. How can you possibly think otherwise unless you dont understand mma or have never participated in it. Somebody said that shamrocks knees to the liver from being pinned in side control were devastating. Nobody I have ever seen has tapped because of knees from that position on the bottom. That said it was cool to see gracie pin franks arm and start to elbow franks face as frank was trapped in side control ALA Matt hughes Carlos newton, Frank was saved by the bell. Shamrocks anti jujitsu training was nothing. He has a better stand up game though.
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Old 02-11-2007, 11:23 AM   #34 (permalink)
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I'm not going to question the motives of Frank Shamrock. Only he knew if he threw that fight, and frankly, I don't even care if he did. I'm more looking forward to his fight with Baroni, as it's all but official that these two will be fighting.
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Old 02-11-2007, 12:02 PM   #35 (permalink)
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It's a shame this fight ended the way it did. It looked pretty good 'til the end. True, Gracie got Frank on the ground a few times, BUT, he did pretty much nothing but lay on him. Frank at least threw some body knees.

Herb Dean needs to be sent back to MMA ref school or something. This should have been a N.C. if anything. After the 1st 'intentional, illegal knee to the head', Herb should have stopped the fight momentarily and either stood them up or given a more clear warning to Frank. The 2 knees were not that close in succession that he did not have time to do this. A complete crock in my opinion. If you ask me, Gracie quit. He had Frank where he wanted him several times and couldn't do squat with it. He knew this and knew he was screwed b/c he knew the fight would get to its feet again and then he could possibly be KO'ed like Cesar was. Let's do it again, that's all I can say.
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Old 02-11-2007, 12:07 PM   #36 (permalink)
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IMO renzo may have taken frank down with ease but he didnt do anything at all, just laid there i.e lay n pray. *sighs* and we all know here that we dont like that type of fighting..unless your a fan of tito. i still think frank would have won that fight if it lasted longer. it would just have been a matter of time.
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Old 02-11-2007, 12:21 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Frank would not have won that fight. Yeah, he was doing good standing up, but how long was he standing. His takedown defense sucked and his ground game sucked even worse. Thier are fighters out thier like Chuck Liddell who would have been able to scrambe and get up after being put on the ground. Frank couldn't do any of that. Its like I said before, his anti-BJJ sucked some serious a$$.
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Old 02-11-2007, 12:33 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I'm neither a Gracie or Shamrock bandwagon rider...

The knees to Renzo's head landed by Frank looked downright nasty to me. I don't believe for a minute that Gracie quit like a coward. He was severely rocked, as anyone would have been (besides Mark Hunt or Cabbage?) after a couple of nasty heavy blows like that.

On the other hand, there was really nothing Frank could have done besides what he did in the position he was in at the bottom except for laying there and doing nothing. If Gracie had used his left knee just one time to deliver a similar knee to the head blow while he was on top for the majority of the fight (and he had plenty of opportunity to do so) the fight would have been over long before the 2nd round began.

Before it ended I saw it pretty much as a draw. Gracie imposed his will and spent 80% of the fight on top. Then again, Frank's knees to the ribs looked like they were doing as much or more damage than Renzo did from the top.

Bottom line is that Renzo could have ended the fight and gotten DQ'd the same way long before Frank if he had chosen to do so. He didn't. Not sure who would have won if it wasn't stopped. Renzo looked like he was tiring, but then again was still taking Frank down at will and doing his best to maneuver for a submission.

FWIW, I think Herb Dean made the only call he could. And it was the right call...
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Old 02-11-2007, 12:39 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhshmekel
I'm neither a Gracie or Shamrock bandwagon rider...

The knees to Renzo's head landed by Frank looked downright nasty to me. I don't believe for a minute that Gracie quit like a coward. He was severely rocked, as anyone would have been (besides Mark Hunt or Cabbage?) after a couple of nasty heavy blows like that.

On the other hand, there was really nothing Frank could have done besides what he did in the position he was in at the bottom except for laying there and doing nothing. If Gracie had used his left knee just one time to deliver a similar knee to the head blow while he was on top for the majority of the fight (and he had plenty of opportunity to do so) the fight would have been over long before the 2nd round began.

Before it ended I saw it pretty much as a draw. Gracie imposed his will and spent 80% of the fight on top. Then again, Frank's knees to the ribs looked like they were doing as much or more damage than Renzo did from the top.

Bottom line is that Renzo could have ended the fight and gotten DQ'd the same way long before Frank if he had chosen to do so. He didn't. Not sure who would have won if it wasn't stopped. Renzo looked like he was tiring, but then again was still taking Frank down at will and doing his best to maneuver for a submission.

FWIW, I think Herb Dean made the only call he could. And it was the right call...
renzo was doing nothing from the top, frank at least was landing shots and working. IMO frank would have somewhat gotten out of there and do something to renzo.
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Old 02-11-2007, 01:02 PM   #40 (permalink)
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***Re-Post from another thread***


Awesome card. the prelims online were good too. who the f*ck was that retard running around with the mic in the prelims? Krazy Horse came in an KO Noons with a huge right. Very impessive. Carrano kicked some ass. The Crow just looked like he's not in it anymore, it's really depressing as I was rooting for him. Props to "Smokin" Joe Villasenor, he dominated. My favorite fight was Bigfoot Silva VS Cabbage. WOW! 6'4" 298lbs throwing flying knees?! I was utterly amazed and in awe. Nobody has put Cabbage down like that, and that says A LOT. I know Cabbage is a giant punching bag but they guy is as tough as anyone and NEVER an I'll say it again NEVER gets KO'ed like that.

Now Gracie vs Shamrock. Where do I start? Shamrock is a classlees pr*ck. He intentionally kneed a downed opponent in the head. Neck, back of the head, it wouldn't have mattered if he got caught flush in the jaw. Illegal move is an illegal move. Then he says that he was winning the fight and Gracie was 30 seconds from being KO'ed? (quoted from his post-fight video interview on sh*tdog.com) Come on now. Gracie was doing his thing and definitley winning the fight without a shadow of a doubt to any MMA fan. (BTW the stand-up in round 1 was bullsh*t, Gracie had his knee on Shamrock's belly either looking to mount or for an armbar) Shamrock knew he was losing I guarantee it. To say that Gracie took the easy way out is bullsh*t. His neck could be serously hurt. They put a neck brace on him for christ's sake! He took it off because of pride. At the end of the broadcast you can hear Gracie tell the EMT woman that he wouldn't get on the stretcher, no way. The man could have major neck problems. When Glazer was talking to Shamrock in the ring was I the only one that wanted someone to just kick what I think was Shamrock's wife in head? What a stupid b*tch. You can hear her call Gracie a "*****" in the background and that he "wussed out". I was just waiting for Cesar Gracie to cheap shot Frank and I woulda cheered him on. Shamrock is a classless pr*ck and nowhere near as good as he says he is and everyone now knows it.
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