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Shamrock vs. Gracie

5K views 97 replies 38 participants last post by  light 
#1 ·
i wish i seen this!! i was watchin the play by play on sherdog...they said Gracie took first round, then in second round, Frank lands two knees to Renzo's head while on the ground...and Frank gets dusqualified!! FRANK LOST THE BOUT!! im so happy! but i wish i saw it..
 
#3 ·
I don't know, I didn't actually see it but from what I read it didn't really sound like an illegal maneuver. Seems retarded to not be able to knee to the head when you're in side mount. It's not realistic nor does it let fighters utilize all of their abilities. Many rules make sense (No gouging, hair pulling, small joint manipulation) for fighter safety, but things like that (And the UFC's "no kneeing downed opponents) are kind of retarded in my opinion.

It seems like the better fighter lost because of a technicality. Ah well, if Gracie can be proud of that win than that's sad for him.
 
#4 ·
I'm happy Renzo won but I'd rather had seen him submit Frank instead of winning by DQ. Anti jiu jutsu my a$$, Frank needs to work on that sh*t.
 
#5 ·
i just saw it..I don't know what the hell Shamrock was thinking...he was loosing the ground game to Renzo, so he got DQed w/ the illegal knees to the back of the head. All Frank was saying was he was "old school" and not aware of the "new" rules..really disapointing...I'm a fan of both, but the cheap shots (illegal knees)was, IMO intentional. Before the stoppage, Frank landed a few solid punches, but Renzo was able to neutralize him on the ground. I'm still iffy on the stand-up count they have...really works against bjj guys like Renzo...he was working on a submission but Herb Dean would stand em up...
 
#6 ·
well...i wanted Gracie to win to shut up Frankie...but i would rather have a clean win than a DQ. Heard they put Renzo in a neck brace but he walked out under his own steam. how hard were the knees? did they look unintentional on the replay? could it be changed to a NC later
 
#7 ·
Gotta Tell ya. This Smells!!!!! Shamrock won this fight, gracie gets shamrock down then proceeds to Lay on him Forever, Doing NOTHING!!!!! I Know none of us got hit but those knees looked rather harmless....

I Think one of 2 things, this fight was Smelly OR gracie QUIT!!!! gracie just layed on top of Shamrock and did NOTHING, Again this fight is either stinky or renzo Quit!!!!
 
#10 ·
ShockeyTime said:
Gotta Tell ya. This Smells!!!!! Shamrock won this fight, gracie gets shamrock down then proceeds to Lay on him Forever, Doing NOTHING!!!!! I Know none of us got hit but those knees looked rather harmless....

I Think one of 2 things, this fight was Smelly OR gracie QUIT!!!! gracie just layed on top of Shamrock and did NOTHING, Again this fight is either stinky or renzo Quit!!!!
yeah im thinking the same thing.
 
#11 ·
There seems to be a few different threads about this show floating around, but I think I'll stick to this one. Where da moderatin' at!?

The Bennett/Noons fight was actually pretty good, and ended with an awesome knockout. I thought Bennett was hurt too, but that dude has a head full of iron. The post-fight trash talk makes him all the more entertaining.
Carano vs. Kedzie was an awesome war. Kedzie got desperate pretty early in the fight, but still managed to hang in there and take a hell of a beating. I don't think it's fully set in what the meaning of that fight has done for females in mixed martial arts. Carano is gonna make some noise. Major props to Kedzie, too.
Loiseau looked exactly like he did in his fight with Mike Swick; he looked like he didn't want to be there. I was impressed with Joe, who's last name escapes me. I've never heard of him but it's apparent he's been around for a while. Wouldn't be surprised to see him fight in the UFC.
Antonio Silva is another guy I've never heard of, but he put a hurtin' on Cabbage and put him away early. Anyone that can finish Cabbage has got to be tough.
Gracie/Shamrock started out great. It was apparent that Gracie was doing a good job of controlling Shamrock on the ground, although the Elite XC's stand-up rule kind of interfered with his game-plan. Shamrock was also doing a good job of using his striking. It's unfortunate it ended the way it did, it could have ended up being a pretty damn good fight.

Fight of the night definitely goes to Carano/Kedzie.
 
#12 ·
Bonnar426 said:
Herb Dean warned him twice not to knee him in the head and he did it anyways. Frank screwed himself.
>
>
I've always thought herb dean was an idiot, tonight sealed it, he let renzo lay there FOREVER on top of shamronk and do NOTHING!!!!!! Zippo, and if he were so worried about the knees, He did'nt seem to worried after he finally broke up renzo just laying there, but after renzo got up and started looking funny, err IMO acting n Quitting, dean then look confused on what to do...

Hell even when they asked dean what he thought, he looked clueless and scared to answer....

I'll say it, if i did'nt know better I'd say renzo QUIT or this fight WAS rigged for Future viewers, and I'm shocked to be truthfull...

ST
 
#13 ·
Lloyd said:
LOL u mean he warned him once and stood there an watched as he done it again. He could have stepped in and prevented the second one! Gracie fighting is a thing of the past. Quit hanging on! Its kinda like how Mike tyson was washed up years before anyone could accept it! Dude its a new day, Renzo was very unimpressive!
Even if you were right and Herb only warned him once that should have been enough. Shamrock didn't listen. Besides, how was Herb suppose to pervent it. Did you want him to jump in front of Renzo and take the knee shots. Or maybe you just want him to hold Frankie's hand all night long because he didn't know the rules.
 
#14 ·
While standing in the clinch Frank threw several punches to the back of the head, was warned, threw more punches to the back of the head, and was warned some more. Then when Renzo took him down he threw MORE punches to the back of the head. Was he trying to get DQ'd?

Someone explain the decision to me. Is he DQ'd because they were knees to the head while in a down position or was he DQ'd because they were knees to the back of the head? Either way I do not understand the DQ and this is why: 1. If the rule is "NO KNEES TO THE HEAD OF A DOWN OPPONENT" there should clearly be an exception if YOU ARE ON THE BOTTOM. If the rule is no HITTING the back of the head/neck there has to be some forgiveness if the guy is turning his head. I know that this forgiveness is usually granted to punchers when their opponents turn their heads to avoid getting hit on the side of the face.

IMO it should have been declared a no contest. If I duck because I think you are throwing a punch but you are coming with an inside leg kick and you hit my groin, should you be disqualified?
 
#15 ·
^as you explained it he broke the rules several times. several "accidents" turn into an intentional. so if he accidently kicks you in the groan, the ref will give you a moment to recover. if you can't continue i believe a DQ is what happens. but rarely does that happen as noone wants to win like that
 
#17 ·
frank was winning the fight. its not too big of a deal that he got dq'd. he needs the hit to his ego. renzo put up a good effort, but the gracie way is really falling by the wayside. they're all great fighters, but other fighters have not only caught up to them, they've surpased them in ability.
 
#18 ·
Shamrock definitely hit him with illegal blows but that second knee only hit the back of his head because he turned his head after the first one landed. I agree with ShocketTime somewhat because Herb Dean should've jumped in when the first knee was landed and issued a warning right away. I think Herb said in the post fight interview that he had warened him earlier in the fight about rabbit punches to the head but I don't think Frank was intentionally aiming at the head. Oh well...pretty dissappointing overall.

Overall tonight's EliteXc was a C at best. The best fight was the women's.
1. Noons vs. Bennett = quick KO for Bennett
2. Carano vs. Kedzie = Carano was too good but Kedzie at least fought back.
3. Loiseau vs. Villasenor = Loiseau should take a year or two off. He's just been outclassed his last 3 fights period. He doesn't fight until the last round.
4. Silva vs. Correira = Silva was too big for Cabbage. He didn't stand a chance. I know where Cabbage gets the name, he resembled a cabbage tonight. (ROUND)
5. Shamrock vs. Gracie = DQ, Gracie was doing a LNP with no GNP at all. Shamrock couldn't stop the takedown though so he was losing that fight. I don't think the "Warning" with the 15 second clock was used correctly.
 
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#19 · (Edited)
Calibretto9 said:
Sounds like Renzo was tired and was taking the win no matter how he had to get it. Laugh out friggin' loud.
he also had a grin on his face as he was walking out the building in the post fight footage. i bet he was thinking "yay i beat frank shamrock and i didnt have to do anything thank god!" pssh

btw i wonder if frank still wants to fight for the exc despite what happened. he looked pretty pissed and probably feels screwed. idk i guess we'll have to see.
 
#21 ·
I was so pissed I dvr'd this fight and it cut off! I went for 2hrs 15 mins as it was in the guide, but the last thing I saw was Renzo get a neck brace and that was it. Can anybody fill me in (that saw it) on what happened after that? I know it ended up being DQ'd but did they interview anybody? Was it a doctor stoppage thing or just Herb?
 
#22 ·
They didn't interview Renzo but showed him being helped away to the hospital. They interviewed Shamrock in the ring, who totally no sold the fact that he was repeatedly warned for illegal blows, then kneed Renzo twice more to get DQ'd. The majority of what he said was "I'm old school and I came to fight."
 
#23 ·
IMO Renzo was on his way to a decision victory. Shamrock's strike's weren't that crisp. He got taken down easily too many times. He is pretty tough to put a submission on, but he was still being controlled. It looked like the second round was going to look like the first, and I believe it would have, had the bout continued. And the third would look the same. Renzo by decision, had the bout continued. IMO
 
#24 ·
brief said:
IMO Renzo was on his way to a decision victory. Shamrock's strike's weren't that crisp. He got taken down easily too many times. He is pretty tough to put a submission on, but he was still being controlled. It looked like the second round was going to look like the first, and I believe it would have, had the bout continued. And the third would look the same. Renzo by decision, had the bout continued. IMO
Interesting view. I'm still waiting for someone to post the fight so I can see it firsthand.
 
#25 ·
Now im not gonna say I know what exactly happened but I noticed acouple things.
1. Renzo was definantly winning rounds 1 and 2

2.The knees looked intentinal (to me)

3.Shamrock didnt seem to care when he loss

So this leaves me with one question...Whats worst loosing fair and sqaure or getting DQed so you could get a second chance at a fight your appearing to loose?

Now this may not be the case but do you think its possible Frank knew he was loosing and DQed himself knowing he could get a rematch? I mean he didnt seem to give a crap he loss the fight, he could have actaully been releaved. Plus you can see him grabing around Renzos head and looking at his neck while he kneed it.Possibly Frank DQed himself so he wouldnt legitimently loose. Im definantly not saying this is what happend. Just something to think about. This fight was definantly odd and there are some unanswered questions.but the truth is only known by Frank and Renzo. Keep in mind I practice BJJ so I am biased towards Renzo.

Also I dont see why so many of you are saying "Frank would have won anyway" Renzo was basically taking Shammrock down at will and he may have not afflicted tons of damage on Frank but he was defiantly neutralizing him. Frank had no answer for Renzos ground game other than throughing illgeal knees.

The bottom line is Renzo got the win in a fight which looked like he was on his way to winning.
 
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