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Old 02-11-2007, 10:42 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pt447
Ken is a "legend" because he was around from the start and is recongized for that... but he's in no way "one of the best fighters ever". legend is all well and good, but he'd never stand up to the cream of the crop comparitively! And what better accomplishments has Frank had over Ken? not being a ****, just can't compile a list...
well he is a 5 time undefeated middleweight champion in the ufc. and undefeated in the ufc. defeated enson inoue,minoru suzuki, jeremy horn, tito ortiz, elvis sinosic. and he is an overall better fighter, and a complete fighter. but thats why i think he is a legend IMO.
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Old 02-11-2007, 10:47 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TKOSPIKE
well he is a 5 time undefeated middleweight champion in the ufc. and undefeated in the ufc. defeated enson inoue,minoru suzuki, jeremy horn, tito ortiz, elvis sinosic. and he is an overall better fighter, and a complete fighter. but thats why i think he is a legend IMO.
well, you provided what i asked for... ok then, he can be considered a legend, but that still doesn't mean he get's a free pass at acting like an ingrate! he might have proven his worth, but i have no respect for guys who act like he did. and no matter what, he erased all his accomplishments by throwing those blatant knees to Renzo's neck... i'm sorry, but you dont' see that horribly blatant disrespect in MMA, and he showed it there...

and you could hear his ***** wife after the fight; "he pussied out"... yeah *****, like you're an acredited crtic of what just happened...
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Old 02-11-2007, 10:47 PM   #73 (permalink)
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All in all Frank shamrock is a classes pr*ck!! Whether you were rooting for Shamrock or Gracie, whether you thought Frank or Renzo was winning, knees to the head of a downed opponent is illegal. Mauro Ranallo was confused on the rules. In the United States, knees or kicks to a downed opponents head are illegal. Whether on top or bottom, if one of your knees is even slightly touching the mat you can't be struck in the head by a knee or kick. Herb Dean made the absolute correct call. Anyone who has seen a grappling match or knows ANYTHING absolutely ANYTHING about BJJ knew Renzo was in control of the entire match.

I don't remember anyone saying Royce Gracie employed a "Lay 'n' Pray" in the early UFC's. In a 60 minute round he would lay upon other fighters or have them in his guard for 30 minutes at a time. But oh ya, he was a badass no "lay n pray" there. Where's the difference? Renzo can snap peoples arm and choke guys tice his size out if you give hi 60 minutes on the ground. It's sad that Royce was a badass for his BJJ and when people employ it as good or better than him they get zero respect becuse they don't stand and get beat up like Cabbage. Enough said.
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Old 02-11-2007, 10:50 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Ken drew more money though. Also, when you say "Shamrock" to an MMA fan, they'll 99% of the time say Ken. Ken's even recognized by casual fans. Frank is not. Ken can say that the UFC might not have taken off the way it did if it weren't for him. UFC 40 was a huge event, and Shamrock(And Ortiz) were the reasons why.

Frank was the more naturally talented Shamrock, but Ken knew how business worked. When Ken cut a promo, it was to make money. When Frank cuts a promo, it's to stroke his own ego.

Also, I don't get the whole "Renzo did nothing on the ground". Like Ghizman & pt447 said, Renzo was looking for more dominant position's, and taking his time to make sure he'd get a submission. Renzo was in control, and there wasn't a damn thing Frank could do about it(Except throw illegal knee's). Hell, blame Frank for letting Renzo get those positions with ease.
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Old 02-11-2007, 11:53 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Not only that, but he wasn't just holding him there, not trying to advance his positions. He was taking his time, and tried not to make mistakes. I think the quick stalling rule of the Elite XC really interfered with Renzo's gameplan, which was to work Shamrock on the ground, and beat him by outpositioning him. The times they were stood up, I really didn't understand why because Renzo was working to control him. I'd say Renzo was doing pretty well, up until the knees.
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Old 02-12-2007, 12:00 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd
Yeah thats a good point he threw the knee from the bottom!
The bottom line here is Renzo was exhausted and took the easy way out! The knee was unintentional. Its not like Frank knew where the knee would land, he was defending himself!
what do you mean he didnt know where the knees were landing...if you watched the fight shamrock had his hand right along side gracies head,,his knees were hitting right where his hand was...........he knew damn well where his hand was........i hope that loud mouth does fight baroni,,baroni will shut it once and for all......shamrock has no ****en class............
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Old 02-12-2007, 12:03 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mma1357
Exactly.

I just watched the fight again and noticed something very important. Frank had his arm around Renzo's head and was pulling his head towards him, after he would pull Renzo's head he would then move his arm completely out of the way and then knee Renzo in the same spot his arm used to be. He did this twice. He would pull his head, move his arm and then knee Renzo. If Frank didn't know where his knees were landing and was just "fighting" then how did he know to move his arm away from Renzo's head right before his knee would hit Renzo?
you just hit the nail right on the head........frank dirty period,,they should ban his ass......he is a legend in his own mind..........he talks like he invented this shit,,wtf is up with that??? old man gracie was subin guys and frank s father wasnt even born yet for christ sakes......what a ****en tool.........
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Old 02-12-2007, 12:16 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 2dmax
what do you mean he didnt know where the knees were landing...if you watched the fight shamrock had his hand right along side gracies head,,his knees were hitting right where his hand was...........he knew damn well where his hand was........i hope that loud mouth does fight baroni,,baroni will shut it once and for all......shamrock has no ****en class............
BRAVO, BRAVO!!! Frank's arm was right where the knees landed. he pulled his arm away when he struck with the knees. Intentional knees to the head. i think Frank got caught in the moment and threw the illegal knees not thinking about the rules. he was out of his gameplan, renzo was doing his thing, not dominating but winning both rounds. I've been bashing Frank since the fight last nite really hard. Mainly because what he said afterwards, not the fight itself. He should've been a man about things and apologized for the illegal knees, then and only then should he have been hyping the re-match, after it all was said and done. but disrespecting the sport by unacknowledging the rules? come one frank....like someone said in this or an earlier thread we all now know why Ken and your adopted father (the one that saved him from a life of failure and ultimately maybe prison) has disassociated himself from you for ten years. Least Ken acknowledged to Tito after there third fight that they 'made alot of money together'. ddn't run his mouth like a punk b*tch. hope someones punches your wife in the ovaries frank
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Old 02-12-2007, 12:18 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghizman
BRAVO, BRAVO!!! Frank's arm was right where the knees landed. he pulled his arm away when he struck with the knees. Intentional knees to the head. i think Frank got caught in the moment and threw the illegal knees not thinking about the rules. he was out of his gameplan, renzo was doing his thing, not dominating but winning both rounds. I've been bashing Frank since the fight last nite really hard. Mainly because what he said afterwards, not the fight itself. He should've been a man about things and apologized for the illegal knees, then and only then should he have been hyping the re-match, after it all was said and done. but disrespecting the sport by unacknowledging the rules? come one frank....like someone said in this or an earlier thread we all now know why Ken and your adopted father (the one that saved him from a life of failure and ultimately maybe prison) has disassociated himself from you for ten years. Least Ken acknowledged to Tito after there third fight that they 'made alot of money together'. ddn't run his mouth like a punk b*tch. hope someones punches your wife in the ovaries frank
yeah, her comment right at the end really boiled my balls!!!
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Old 02-12-2007, 12:35 AM   #80 (permalink)
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yeah, her comment right at the end really boiled my balls!!!
love him or hate him thats frank shamrock for ya. i can see why him and tito are really good friends. lol
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