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Old 02-12-2007, 06:54 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TKOSPIKE
love him or hate him thats frank shamrock for ya. i can see why him and tito are really good friends. lol
i just don't see how real fans of the sport, the ones who respect the fighters and the sport for it's artistry and respect, can think Frank is anything more than a loudmouth piece of trash! just because he's good doesn't mean he has free reign to act like a jackass and bring the sport to the level of boxing!
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:35 AM   #82 (permalink)
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pt comeon frank is ill as ****
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Old 02-12-2007, 12:43 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Wow... This is an amusing thread. I watched the fight and here are my thoughts:

1) If you thought Renzo was doin' the Lay 'n' Pray, then you've never spent too much time on the gruond with anyone who knows what they're doing. It wasn't like Renzo took Frank down, sat in his full gaurd with his head buried in this chest hoping not to get hit. He took him down and would immediately transition to half-guard and then out to side mount. He was working. If you can't see that, get on the mat with someone who knows what they're doing, not your undersized cousins or siblings, and definitely not just your drunk buddies.

2) I don't know what to think about that warning timer. I was watching the fight, and Herb Dean stands them up while Renzo has moved to KoB. The crowd didn't even start booing at that point. Do you know how significant that is considering the nature of the Stateside audience? Hell, even the announcers were saying that Frank was just holding on (in their exact words "stalling) waiting for the warning to go off and get reset to their feet. I don't know on what side of the fence you are on as far as ground work goes, but they were definitely being stood up way too early.

3) When things were standing, Frank was scoring with strikes. But, this ain't boxing and the clinch (and following takedown) was par for the course. I was expecting a little more on Frank's end to keep it on his side of the game.

4) The knees were being thrown and hitting exactly where Frank wanted them to hit. He knew where Renzo's head was, and if you don't believe me get someone to pull side mount on you, close your eyes and tell me if you can't figure out their skull from their arsehole. The knees were fully intentional, and as the rules go they were foul shots.

5) Did it look to me like Renzo is hamming it up after Herb stops for the fouls? To be fair: Yes, completely. The knees, although fouls, were not that hard. He didn't have the room to fully extend his leg because of the fence, and Renzo's position didn't allow Frank to connect with his knee cap (more the top of his thigh). At that point, it has to be pointed out why Frank was DQ'd. Frank was DQ'd was because Renzo did not continue after given the time to recuperate after the foul. If he would have gotten back into the fight, then the fight would have went to a finish. BTW - If the fighter (or anyone) says to an EMT that their neck/head is hurting, that EMT will neckbrace them to fully protect them from further injury and to fully protect themselves from a lawsuit.

All in all... That fight was definitely disappointing. Frank was confident on his feet and was scoring the significant shots, but Renzo was taking him down and controlling him at will. I was hoping that Frank would at least be able to pull gaurd, but he couldn't. I would have called it a draw up until the foul. After the foul, everything about this fight went down the toilet faster than last night's fried chicken and okra. No one was "clearly" winning in this fight, and we all got a finish that no one wanted.

But, please for the love of what you consider sacred, please don't give us a rematch. I'd sooner have bamboo shoved up under my finger nails than to have to witness something like this again. Shame on both Frank and Renzo for that.
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Old 02-12-2007, 01:50 PM   #84 (permalink)
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there are 2 things very disapointing in this fight.

Herb gave notice to Frank after the 1st shot to the back of the neck that he shouldn't do that.. and then Frank did it again, so that deserves the DQ jsut for that!!

Second, Renzo said that he was willing to take this fight to a new level.. bla bla bla, this didn't look like a new level to me, it actually looked like a liar... he knows he was fine, and could have continued, but as the manager of Gracie said, "this is why we have rules, if we didn't have them we would have hair pulling and BITING!!!" thats what he said!!! WHAT?!?!

So again, theres 2 sides to this coin, Frank disrepected the Refs warning, and did what he did almost right after he was warned, but Gracie LOOKED at the ref and put his had up ... like saying "common ref hes not allowed to do this".. and then put his hand back down and then a split second later he layed back not wanting to continue. So Frank came to fight, and Renzo came for the money.

And BOTH lost their pride of the families!! hahah
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:57 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Kirkardo has a little shameless behaviour in the past
I really dislike herb dean. I never saw the fight but all you guys are telling that it was an accident. I agree with the person that said that Herb doesn't like the shamrocks becasue of this and tito vs ken herb stopped it after tito hit him with 3 elbows and ken got up and was like " What the HANK"
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Old 02-12-2007, 06:14 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkardo
I really dislike herb dean. I never saw the fight but all you guys are telling that it was an accident. I agree with the person that said that Herb doesn't like the shamrocks becasue of this and tito vs ken herb stopped it after tito hit him with 3 elbows and ken got up and was like " What the HANK"
first off, "all us guys" aren't saying it was an accident. it clearly wasn't, not by a long shot. Plus, knowing Frank, you certainly know it wasn't. hell, it was probably his idea of a publicity stunt to make their next fight that much more hyped. thirdly, herb dean did a great job with the decision to disqualify Shamrock. he warned the jerk once about the exact same thing. and, if you haven't watched the fight, you have no right to comment on it because you don't know what happened. you're forming an opinion off of hearsay and other people's opinions. anyone who has watched MMA for more than a month knows what went down and nobody is really debating it. the only peole who are, have no idea what they're talking about!
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Old 02-12-2007, 06:58 PM   #87 (permalink)
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it was herbs fault for not interupting the fight after the first illegal knee




herb dean is a stinker
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Old 02-12-2007, 07:23 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawShattera
it was herbs fault for not interupting the fight after the first illegal knee




herb dean is a stinker
Hear we go again with the Herb Dean bashing. If this was John McCarthy you people would be kissing his feet and praising what a wonderful job he did.

It's simple. Herb warned Frank about the knee's but Suck a$$ decided to ignore him. Just because Frank is an idiot doesn't mean Herb has to hold his hand all three rounds.
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Old 02-12-2007, 07:27 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawShattera
it was herbs fault for not interupting the fight after the first illegal knee




herb dean is a stinker
not at all... you don't just interrupt the fight at the first sing of something, because often, there are legitimate accidents and mistakes, and immidietly the fighter appologizes, and the fight goes on... but that wasn't the case here, Frank did it again and Herb couldn't give him the benefit of the doubt any longer. it was obvious what was going on.
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:05 PM   #90 (permalink)
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I think Herb is one of the best refs in the game. The guy is A+. Look at Sylvia vs Mir, everyone booed him and then they showed the replay and it turns out he was right. Shamrock/Ortiz 2, everyone booed him and then Shamrock/Ortiz 3 showed everyone he was right.

Herb warned Frank and then Frank did it again and so Herb made the right decision.
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