*Official Alistair Overeem vs Fabricio Werdum Pre/Post Fight Thread* - Page 36 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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View Poll Results: Who advances in the Strikeforce HW GP?

Alistair 'The Demolition Man' Overeem 33 89.19%
Fabrcio 'Vai Cavalo' Werdum 4 10.81%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-20-2011, 04:25 PM   #351 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attention View Post
IMHO, you simply cannot say he 'controlled the cage' for ANY ROUND because he did NOT take the fight where he wanted it... It only ever went to the ground because Reem took it there...not because Werdum brought him to the ground.
...

It should be blatantly obvious that Werdum spent more time on his back than doing his 'clean striking' so its illogical to think this should mean Werdum won the 'EFFECTIVE aggressiveness'. You just can be 'effective' while begging a guy to fight to your strength.
...

However, Werdum loses for effective grappling, octogon control, effective aggressiveness for all 3 rounds.
Werdum took the fight exactly where he wanted it every time he pulled guard... Overeem never once went for a takedown, every time the fight went to the ground it was because Werdum wanted it too... When it did go to the ground yes Overeem was on top but he did nothing other then lay on Werdum hoping to not get subbed and then try and stand back up when the chance arose.

Overeem "won" that fight by being strong and having Werdum pull himself onto him. He lost the striking in rounds 1 and 3 and did nothing other then stuff a couple takedown attempts and throw werdum to the ground a couple times.

Werdum won the striking, dictated where the fight took place(yes Overeem was on top on the ground but Werdum was the one putting the fight there and was the one that was comfortable even though he was on bottom), was the aggressor(was the one wading in with punches and shooting for takedowns/pulling guard). The grappling should have been negligible because neither fighter did much, Werdum had a decent sub attempt in 3rd and Overeem had a couple nice takedown defenses. Sitting in guard is a neutral position and should not be scored

Fact is the judges should not have awarded Overeem the fight for laying in Werdum's guard because Overeem was not the one initiating that situation. Overeem wanted nothing to do with being in Werdum's guard but ended up being there multiple times against his will. He also got outstruck and spent most of the fight back peddling while standing or laying on Werdum trying to keep Werdum from getting any good submission attempts.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by attention View Post
Disagree on effective ... backing up isnt a sign of being less effective... its like faulting a person for using head movement, you do what you gotta do to evade... backing up included.
Agree on this point EXCEPT, you have to do something after you block/evade. Overeem landed NOTHING of any more significance then Werdum did... His shots were glancing and he was constantly being backed up WITHOUT being able to land an effective counter punch.
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:47 PM   #352 (permalink)
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I'll just say one thing to everyone saying Werdum "won the striking" in any round. How exactly is Overeem supposed to put together a decent string of strikes, like ya know, a combo, when every time Overeem so much as connected Werdum fell to the ground and tried to pull guard. It was like watching bad footy; it drives me nuts watching those guys take dives and it pissed me off when Werdum did it for 3 rounds. How is Overeem supposed to be effective when every time he connects Werdum falls over like a sack of bricks.

On top of that Werdum took it upon himself to purposefully stall the fight by getting up as slowly as he possibly could.

This is MMA, not a grappling match. The fighters start standing up. Pulling guard is fine but if it isn't working you shouldn't be allowed to do it over and over to neutralize the stand up game of your opponent and ruin the fight.

People say wrestlers have an advantage with being able to be on top and gain points? Well, strikers advantage has always been that the default position is standing. If Werdum needs every fight to get to the ground so badly he better find a more entertaining way of getting it there or he isn't going to have a fan or promoter in the world very interested in him.
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:13 PM   #353 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 420atalon View Post
Werdum took the fight exactly where he wanted it every time he pulled guard...
I honestly dont know where you saw that
I could understand if actually brought Reem WITH HIM, when he pulled guard... but he FAILED to bring Reem down him.

The bulk of the time Werdum falls back and starts waving and prayin, literally BEGGING Reem to 'cmon down'.

So I dont understand how you can say "Werdum took the fight exactly where he wanted it everytime he pulled guard"... then why was he begging and praying? Why would he do that if Reem was with him on the ground every single time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 420atalon View Post
Overeem never once went for a takedown, every time the fight went to the ground it was because Werdum wanted it too...
He didnt have to ... Reem just chucked him aside and Werdum flopped to the ground... then Werdum would attempt to beg Reem to come to the ground, folding his hands in prayer and putting on a begging frown... egad, how does one give the round Werdum for that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 420atalon View Post
When it did go to the ground yes Overeem was on top but he did nothing other then lay on Werdum hoping to not get subbed and then try and stand back up when the chance arose.
Agreed, which made the ground game a complete write off... nothing happened there... but thats because Reem dictated that... which is why Reem controlled where the fight went... otherwise there would have been more action on the ground and it would be clear that Werdum was the one in control of the cage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 420atalon View Post
Overeem "won" that fight by being strong and having Werdum pull himself onto him. He lost the striking in rounds 1 and 3 and did nothing other then stuff a couple takedown attempts and throw werdum to the ground a couple times.
I believe that Werdum LOST that fight... because he failed to execute a decent game plan to get Reem to the ground and control him there. He attempted some wild strikes in the hope that Reem would follow him to the ground ... and Reem had none of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 420atalon View Post
Werdum won the striking, dictated where the fight took place(yes Overeem was on top on the ground but Werdum was the one putting the fight there and was the one that was comfortable even though he was on bottom), was the aggressor(was the one wading in with punches and shooting for takedowns/pulling guard). The grappling should have been negligible because neither fighter did much, Werdum had a decent sub attempt in 3rd and Overeem had a couple nice takedown defenses. Sitting in guard is a neutral position and should not be scored
I dont fault him for pulling guard, its part of his game plan...take him to the ground, submit his arse...
but when it fails ... he should STAND UP AGAIN...and TRY AGAIN. I fault him for not standing up after every single failed 'guard pull'... I fault him for begging his opponent to 'please, let me submit you', I fault him for making the entire fight look horrible for both of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 420atalon View Post
Fact is the judges should not have awarded Overeem the fight for laying in Werdum's guard because Overeem was not the one initiating that situation. Overeem wanted nothing to do with being in Werdum's guard but ended up being there multiple times against his will. He also got outstruck and spent most of the fight back peddling while standing or laying on Werdum trying to keep Werdum from getting any good submission
The fact is Werdum didnt give the Judges enough to give the round to him... rather, he gave them reason to take it away from him.
Had Werdum NOT begged, NOT flopped to his back time and time again, had Werdum used different techniques to get Reem to the ground (even in failure) instead of the same thing over and over again... he could have given the Judges justification for taking each and every round.
Instead, we get this disgusting display of pleading with his opponent 'please sir, let me submit you'... please let me work my magic on the ground where I am at my strongest and you are at your weakest... UGH!

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Old 06-20-2011, 11:27 PM   #354 (permalink)
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A few members need to relax and calm down.

If you can't discuss things in a civil manner, then don't discuss them at all and leave the thread.
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