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Old 06-20-2011, 09:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Overeem vs Werdum - What Went Wrong

Can see why all the UFC hyper would have a field day on this one but then what do those guys really know about MMA aside from what DW says, to write then both off as cans after a lack luster performance is beyond stupid, so lets look at what really happened.

For a start am not saying that was a great performance, the Reem did not perform like a No.1 HW, mistakes where made, for one it was like he was not fully in MMA mode and just wanted to fight under K-1 rules but will come to that later, but certain extremes in this particular match up I believe lead to delivering an under par performance, so to assume the same mistakes would be made against other top HW's is beyond stupid and some of the comments I have read from UFC huggers like "Reem could not even beat Nelson or Carwin" or moving the entire UFC HW division above in the rankings is beyond laughable, seriously you guys are a joke so seriously just go back to humping your Dana White bed covers you fcuking homos. Bottom line is Reem put on a bad performance against another top 5 HW and still did enough to edge the victory.

Why was the Reem so far from his best?

He was over confident in some aspects, and he managed to give both to much and not enough respect to his opponents ability.

The Reem's game plan was simple, to simple in fact, stuff the Takedowns, Keep it Standing, Get the KO, and he was so confident he could do this that he thought as long has he got the first part right and stuffed the TD's the rest would just fall into place kindly and it would be a given easy victory, and that's s where he was over confident, because he was not prepared for any curve balls that could divert this simple plan that MMA can throw at him, and as a result unprepared to switch on the fly and engage in all aspects of MMA.

The Reem was unprepared for Werdum to strike with him on the Feet, this is where he under estimated his opponent, the Reem was so over confident in his striking ability advantage over Werdum that he did not even takes Werdum's striking seriously, its almost like he expected Werdum to do nothing except shoot for single or double leg TD's all night in desperate attempts to get the fight to the ground, which is the one think he was prepared for and he was able to stuff those TD's all night long, but when Werdum started throwing some strikes of his own the Reem allowed himself to be taken by surprise and he was caught off guard, and I think he felt and was hurt by some of those strikes a lot more than he allowed himself to let on, almost like his pride was effected when he go caught as if to say "what you actually have the cheek to stand strike it out with me?".

Then there was Werdum's curve ball when he started to pull guard, this is where he gave Werdum to much respect, now I don't care if he just came of a victory where he subbed Fedor from his guard, if you want to be the best MMA fighter in the world you have to hurt your opponent when you are on the ground on top, Fedor knows this thats why he was top of the chain for so long, hell even Brock Lesnar knows this, Fedor maybe did not give Werdum enough respect for his BJJ and created to much space to work his GnP when he got subbed and as a result left the opening that allowed Werdum to catch him in that triangle, the Reem did the exact opposite and was over doing the submission defense and doing nothing except looking stand back up, when he should of been looking for a balance in between.

I hate to say it but he should of took a leaf out of Brock Lesnars book on this one, when Lesnar faced Mir the first time and got subbed did that stop him from engaging with Mir on the ground the second time round?, NO, all that changed was he was more careful of Mirs guard showing improved submission defense yet was still looking to be aggressive and use top position to cause damage which earned him the win, if you was to stick Fedor in that position again sure he maybe a little more careful and not give Werdum as much space but do you think he would give up top position and let him back to his feet, not a fcuking chance he would look to do damage because that is his way, that is the way of all the top fighters, when you are on top you make your opponent pay its that simple.

The Reem was not prepared at all to be on top in dominant position on the ground in that fight, maybe because he figured it was never going to happen because he knew that he personally was not going to go for any TD's, but still you have to be able and willing to take advantage of that situation if it presents its self, there is a reason you rarely see people pull guard in an MMA fight and that's because you are giving up dominant position to your opponent, and if you do that against any top fighter you should pay the price, the Reem should of been looking to maybe not get over aggressive and keep his wits about him from the risk of submissions but at the same time he should of been looking to capitalize from that position.

Despite all the faults I believe 29/28 decision win to the Reem was a far result, because at the end of the day Werdum never had dominant position on the ground and you don't win fights by decision when you are on your back with your opponent on top of you which turned the decision in the Reems favor from a fairly even striking stand off where Werdum actually impressed me more in that department but not enough to ignore the fact that every take down that would have lead to a dominant position was stuffed and he did spend all the time on the ground on his back.

Bottom line is this, the Reem has the skills to be the best, but he needs to get over his K-1 mind set and start thinking MMA and be better prepared for any given situation in a MMA fight instead of trying to turn an MMA fight into a K-1 strike off, Werdum impressed me in that fight I think he did very well not to get KTFO by the worlds No.1 HW, but still the Reem got the Win and hopefully will look back at that fight see where he can be more of a complete MMA fighter which he will have to perform like if he is to show the world that he is No.1.
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Old 06-21-2011, 03:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Very interesting point with Brock vs Mir II. This is all game planning though. Brock's game was to take down, take top control, and donkey kong away. Overeem wanted to keep it standing and rightfully so although it would have been nice to take em out on the ground. But one has to look at what happened to Fedor.

I believe it was more about the past, game plan, and what was at stake. His game plan was similar to GSP vs Jake Shields if you will. Nothing too exciting, however it was Werdum's fault for making the fight the way it was. At least Jake didn't flop on the ground he tried to bang. Whenever Werdum tried...he got nailed man. It's hard to see until you watch it a second time, but he got nailed with several hard shots. Had he not flopped he would have gotten punished even more.

- Grand Prix tournament
- redemption
- even though the SF belt wasn't on the line it would be as if it were had he lost
- win streak

I believe if Overeem fought Werdum a third time he will go in for the kill even on the ground. Werdum never once truly had him in danger until the last seconds of the 3rd round if anything. All Overeem has to do is throw a couple of bombs and that would loosen a few screws.
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:38 AM   #3 (permalink)
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tldr, go back to your overeem roidhead bed covers.

The guy is an overrated joke who has never beaten anyone of consequence in MMA and has zero heart. Never has.

People love his roid body and can crushing, but he would get killed in the UFC top ranks. I've been saying for a while that he would get exposed the moment he faced anything near top 10, and Werdum was barely near that because he beat a declining Fedor, but he still proved the point. K1 =/= MMA.
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Old 06-21-2011, 05:53 AM   #4 (permalink)
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when Werdum, once again, was sitting on his ass and literally begging Overeem to follow him...cheeez how ******* arrogant can you be??! shit I was hoping for Overeem to smash his face in... just because he submitted fedor he thinks he's some kind of invulnerable ground fighter...let the idiot fight brock next and beg him to follow.... ffs

that fight was an embarassement to MMA.

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Old 06-21-2011, 08:46 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Cliffs notes for those who don't want to wade through that mess:

-Overeem looked bad, I'm really butthurt about it.
-wahhhh
-ridiculous explanations of why Overeem got outstruck by Werdum
-wahhh
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:25 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drogo View Post
Cliffs notes for those who don't want to wade through that mess:

-Bitch about the UFC
-Overeem looked bad, I'm really butthurt about it.
-wahhhh
-ridiculous explanations of why Overeem got outstruck by Werdum
-wahhh
Fixed.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
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OK, i have re-watched the fight now a couple of times and have come up with two conclusions -

1 - It wasnt actually as bad of a fight as i thought it was when a watched it live. I think i was caught up in the emotion of it all but when i stepped back and was able to really study the fight, it was actually quite interesting.

2 - There is no reasonable argument that i can see to suggest that Werdum won that fight, or outstruck Overeem. He didnt. The only portion of the fight were i believe it could be argued Werdum was winning was the first 2 minutes of the second round and a flurry at the end of the 3rd. Other than that he was getting countered like crazy on the feet, lieing on the ground, or being smothered by Reems top control. I suppose you could also give him the kneebar that never would of happened aswell if you must.

Almost everything Werdum threw was blocked by Overeems monster forearms and countered.

Werdum landed next to nothing that i could see other than a nice knee in the second and one or two pitter patter strikes. Overeem was countering with HARD knees to the body, hooks and generally dominated the fight.

Yes i like Overeem but this is my impartial opinion. When a fighter i like does badly i dont mind saying (like when Shogun got brutalised by Jones) but this is genuninely what i see. Overeem clearly won all 3 rounds as far as im concerned.


Not a great fight by any means, mainly due to Overeem avoiding the ground and Werdum refusing to give up on his attempts to get it there.



I will contend that Werdums striking is much improved than i have seen it in previous fights (i recently watched his match against AA and there is a marked improvement) so i think there is still alot of potential for Fabricio in this sport.
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:01 AM   #8 (permalink)
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TS, I enjoyed the read. I agree as well on the part about Overeem having too much respect for Werdum.
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Old 06-21-2011, 11:06 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream-On-101 View Post
OK, i have re-watched the fight now a couple of times and have come up with two conclusions -

1 - It wasnt actually as bad of a fight as i thought it was when a watched it live. I think i was caught up in the emotion of it all but when i stepped back and was able to really study the fight, it was actually quite interesting.

2 - There is no reasonable argument that i can see to suggest that Werdum won that fight, or outstruck Overeem. He didnt. The only portion of the fight were i believe it could be argued Werdum was winning was the first 2 minutes of the second round and a flurry at the end of the 3rd. Other than that he was getting countered like crazy on the feet, lieing on the ground, or being smothered by Reems top control. I suppose you could also give him the kneebar that never would of happened aswell if you must.

Almost everything Werdum threw was blocked by Overeems monster forearms and countered.

Werdum landed next to nothing that i could see other than a nice knee in the second and one or two pitter patter strikes. Overeem was countering with HARD knees to the body, hooks and generally dominated the fight.

Yes i like Overeem but this is my impartial opinion. When a fighter i like does badly i dont mind saying (like when Shogun got brutalised by Jones) but this is genuninely what i see. Overeem clearly won all 3 rounds as far as im concerned.


Not a great fight by any means, mainly due to Overeem avoiding the ground and Werdum refusing to give up on his attempts to get it there.



I will contend that Werdums striking is much improved than i have seen it in previous fights (i recently watched his match against AA and there is a marked improvement) so i think there is still alot of potential for Fabricio in this sport.
Yep, my sentiments as well after re-watching it.
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Old 06-21-2011, 11:19 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Coq de Combat View Post
TS, I enjoyed the read. I agree as well on the part about Overeem having too much respect for Werdum.
I don't think almost anyone will have that problem with werdum again xD
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