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Old 07-31-2011, 10:08 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by xeberus View Post
I imagine people will say the same of gsp and anderson some day. I've been following MMA for a decade. Fedor was the greatest fighter to have ever lived up until the later 2000s. He is still the most achieved fighter, greatest heavyweight to have ever lived. This will not change if he loses 10 more fights.
Thank you.

I got him at number 2 all-time with GSP creeping up on him. Fedor is just past his prime, and he has been on the decline for a while.

His record against Minotauro Nogueira, Mirko Cro Cop, Andrei Arlovski, Tim Sylvia, Mark Coleman and Kevin Randleman (the best HW in the world during his era) is 8-0-1.

He hasn't been "Fedor" since 2006. The past three fights only tarnish his legacy a bit IMO. I hope Anderson retires before he starts to lose it, because I don't know how many times I listen to people discredit an all-time great's career when he inevitably loses a step.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Matt Hughes was a different case. He just lived out the lifespan of his career and passed on the torch to the next great p4p fighter in GSP. Any losses afterward were mainly just the result of him being 400 years.

Chuck was also a different case, he met his foil in Rampage. A guy who could consistently beat him in his prime. After the devastating KO, Chuck just couldn't come back from it given his age and it ruined his chin.

Fedor's fall from grace is more similar to Takanori Gomi's more than anyone else.
Chuck's chin got wrecked by Rashad not Rampage- the Rampage fight he recovered almost instantly not when he was out for minutes after the Rashad punch.

All fighters reach a stage when they start to lose unless they retire on top before their skills and abilities start to decline rapidly. It happens as it can't last forever whether time catches up to them or the abilities and talents of the up and comers over take them.

Fedor is a little different since his management did affect his later career but to go as long as he did without a loss is remarkable. He fought some great fighters in his time in Pride(yes with some lower level ones too) and beat them all. To go undefeated in MMA for as long as he did is no small feat. Tim and AA weren't the bums they are now when he KOed them either after the Pride days.

Fedor also fought as a uber small HW by UFC and Strikeforce standards and would have probably been better served fighting at LHW when he finally came to Strikeforce.

You can argue that he's not the best ever(personally I hate those arguments since it can never be proven conclusively) but you can't take away what he did throughout his career. Some sub-par opponent? Sure but even Chuck Liddell had a title fight against Jeremy Horn who wasn't even in the UFC and just wanted to avenge a loss at the time.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:33 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Chuck's chin got wrecked by Rashad not Rampage- the Rampage fight he recovered almost instantly not when he was out for minutes after the Rashad punch.

All fighters reach a stage when they start to lose unless they retire on top before their skills and abilities start to decline rapidly. It happens as it can't last forever whether time catches up to them or the abilities and talents of the up and comers over take them.

Fedor is a little different since his management did affect his later career but to go as long as he did without a loss is remarkable. He fought some great fighters in his time in Pride(yes with some lower level ones too) and beat them all. To go undefeated in MMA for as long as he did is no small feat. Tim and AA weren't the bums they are now when he KOed them either after the Pride days.

Fedor also fought as a uber small HW by UFC and Strikeforce standards and would have probably been better served fighting at LHW when he finally came to Strikeforce.

You can argue that he's not the best ever(personally I hate those arguments since it can never be proven conclusively) but you can't take away what he did throughout his career. Some sub-par opponent? Sure but even Chuck Liddell had a title fight against Jeremy Horn who wasn't even in the UFC and just wanted to avenge a loss at the time.
Jeremy Horn is a good fighter though.

A far cry from the Lee Hasdell's and Mark Hunt's of the world.


Hell, even Vernon White who was pretty bad is better than Wagner Martins.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:48 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Most fans like myself wanted to see Fedor vs Josh Barnett but it wasn't Fedor or his manangement team who screwed that fight up.

I won't argue that Fedor, at times, fought lesser opponents but mixed in were top fighters like Mirko and Nog in their top prime. All of them beaten.

I really don't care how Fedor ranks on people's top P4P lists as I think they(P4P lists) are ridiculous to argue as they will never be resolved but I won't discount his careeer and win streak just because of his latest results.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:49 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by xeberus View Post
I imagine people will say the same of gsp and anderson some day.....
He frankly doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence. They have ducked no one. They have not avoided the best promotion and best competition. When they start getting beat, they'll go out like champions. Fedor went out like a coward in a botched attempt to protect his record. That was not the case with Hughes, Liddell, Couture, etc. etc. Even Shamrock has a better legacy. Fedor should not be rewarded for ducking and record protecting.

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Old 07-31-2011, 11:10 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Calminian View Post
He frankly doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence. They have ducked no one. They have not avoided the best promotion and best competition. When they start getting beat, they'll go out like champions. Fedor went out like a coward in a botched attempt to protect his record. That was not the case with Hughes, Liddell, Couture, etc. etc. Even Shamrock has a better legacy. Fedor should not be rewarded for ducking and record protecting.
Dude if you are talking about Ken Shamrock you are so freaking deluded it's not even funny.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Fedor was the best fighter in the world for at least an 8 year period, and for all practical purposes went undefeated over a ten year span.

Every fighter's skill level eventually declines and Fedor is certainly no exception there.

Chuck Liddell will be remembered as the greatest UFC LHW of his era; his string of losses at the end of his career does not detract from this fact.

Michael Jordan's stint with the Wizards was goofy; it does not affect his legacy.

A string of consecutive losses does have a bearing on a fighter's legacy if they occur in a fighter's prime years (late 20's, early 30's for example).

Fedor turns 35 this year, so a decline is not unexpected.
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Old 08-01-2011, 12:25 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Calminian View Post
He frankly doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence. They have ducked no one. They have not avoided the best promotion and best competition. When they start getting beat, they'll go out like champions. Fedor went out like a coward in a botched attempt to protect his record. That was not the case with Hughes, Liddell, Couture, etc. etc. Even Shamrock has a better legacy. Fedor should not be rewarded for ducking and record protecting.
lol

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, some are better than others. But to deny fedor as one of the grestest fighters in mma history is beyond ignorant. I doubt I'll see a heavyweight achieve what he has again in my life. There is no one now retired that holds a candle to fedor, not even randy couture and I love me some couture.

When all the fickle fans stop hating, they'll remember how great fedor was, and thats how he'll be remembered in the history books.
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Old 08-01-2011, 01:20 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I was checking Fedor's stats and was genuinely taken aback when I read it. 16 wins by submission out of 36 fights, only 6 T/KOs
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Old 08-01-2011, 02:16 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I don't know if it hurts Fedor's legacy. I think it puts it in perspective. It kind of depends on what you mean by all time great. Does that mean domininant in their time or a head to head in their prime matchup. A similarity could be drawn with boxing. Take Jack Dempsey, one of the first major champions in boxing. He is still considered an all time great, but his size and speed could compete with that of the top HWs like Lennox Lewis or Evander Holyfield. However on an all time greats list he would definitely be ahead of them.

Fedor's legacy is that he was the best HW of the PRIDE era. Yes he was protected after the fall of PRIDE and that may hurt him somewhat. I don't think he will go down as the greatest fighter of all time or even the greatest HW, because mma is still so young. The sport simply passed Fedor by. Ali lost 3 out of his last 4. Two were to less than stellar opponents in Berbick and Spinks. Most fighters fight too long. A very few walk away when they should.
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