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Old 08-01-2011, 03:27 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Fedor Legacy is in his own time period, anyone who shits on it is no real mma fan. The sport of mma has grown, when looking back 20 years from now you place fedor like u go other athletes on his own. Fedor is the greatest fighter out of the pride, chuck was the great lhw of the early 2000's. You leave it as what it was just like any other sport. You have the goat anderson silva who is like Jordan, then you have the older guys who are like russels, wilt,etc. For example in the nba people hold bill russel as an all time great but facts are if he was in his prime, shaq would kill him. Just as chuck in his prime would have possibly get beat by shogun,machida, and Jon jones. You don't discredit chuck, its just the sport has grown. Fighters will only get better and better.
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Old 08-01-2011, 04:57 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I dont think his legacy is in question, he was the best heavyweight for a good ten year period. His MMA age has cought up with him now, hes had a lot of wars.

In terms of the 'Best ever' no man will surpase the brilliance of Rob Emerson and why so many try is beyond me.
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Old 08-01-2011, 06:05 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by xeberus View Post
I imagine people will say the same of gsp and anderson some day. I've been following MMA for a decade. Fedor was the greatest fighter to have ever lived up until the later 2000s. He is still the most achieved fighter, greatest heavyweight to have ever lived. This will not change if he loses 10 more fights.
agreed.

what does him losing now take away what he has done in the past?
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Old 08-01-2011, 08:38 AM   #24 (permalink)
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while yes he did win most of his fights, when i look at his record, i only see 8 or 9 really challenging high quality fights, people say AA and sylvia werent crap when he fought them, but they were cans after, and are cans now. whos to say they weren't cans when he fought them after all? not to mention the fact he never went to the ufc, and has now lost to 2 people who were either cut, or wanted too much money for the ufc's taste and a bigfoot, i didnt believe he was the best when he hadnt lost since a doctor stoppage, and i certainly dont believe he ever was the best now.
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:26 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I don't know if it hurts Fedor's legacy. I think it puts it in perspective. It kind of depends on what you mean by all time great. Does that mean domininant in their time or a head to head in their prime matchup. A similarity could be drawn with boxing. Take Jack Dempsey, one of the first major champions in boxing. He is still considered an all time great, but his size and speed could compete with that of the top HWs like Lennox Lewis or Evander Holyfield. However on an all time greats list he would definitely be ahead of them.

Fedor's legacy is that he was the best HW of the PRIDE era. Yes he was protected after the fall of PRIDE and that may hurt him somewhat. I don't think he will go down as the greatest fighter of all time or even the greatest HW, because mma is still so young. The sport simply passed Fedor by. Ali lost 3 out of his last 4. Two were to less than stellar opponents in Berbick and Spinks. Most fighters fight too long. A very few walk away when they should.
Hit the nail on the head. Nobody remembers Joe Lewis' or Alis losses unless it was a war. The losses at the tail end of their careers never really get noted as the fighters are on the decline.

As for Fedor, I really don't care what peoples personal opinions of him are, he is without doubt, one of the greatest ever. Top 3. Easy. Just because the level of opponent has grown stronger while Fedor has got older doesn't mean anyone should think anything less of him. Its called progression. How can anyone really expect Fedor to be undefeated all his career when MMA is progressing and developing so fast?

I think a couple of people mentioned fickleness. Its f*cking epidemic in the world of a MMA fan. People will be hanging of a certain fighters balls one month, next month the same fans will be denouncing the fighter, claiming him to be a 'can' or whatever. I don't think its gonna change. I think its down to each individual fan. Nobody wants to be wrong. Everyone wants to appear knowledgeable. Thats why minds change so often. People are too worried about other peoples opinions.
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:36 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Dude if you are talking about Ken Shamrock you are so freaking deluded it's not even funny.
Ken Shamrock's record is still pretty good and he should have retired a long time before he did (did he yet? lol). I wouldn't discount his legacy like that.
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Old 08-01-2011, 10:27 AM   #27 (permalink)
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The guy is 34. People talk about these three losses as if they shouldn't count as he's too old and past it. But 34 really isn't old for a fighter. We see alot of guys just starting to fight at 30. He's done very well in his career up until this point, so his legacy will remain, he was the best HW for a set period.

But for those saying he's the best HW ever then that has no logic behind that. Seeing as he's already lost to two HW's they are surely better than him?
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Old 08-01-2011, 01:30 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockybalboa25 View Post
...Fedor's legacy is that he was the best HW of the PRIDE era. Yes he was protected after the fall of PRIDE and that may hurt him somewhat. I don't think he will go down as the greatest fighter of all time or even the greatest HW, because mma is still so young. The sport simply passed Fedor by. Ali lost 3 out of his last 4. Two were to less than stellar opponents in Berbick and Spinks. Most fighters fight too long. A very few walk away when they should.
I think this is about right. Fedor was the best Pride HW for a few years. But as you say, it was when MMA was still taking off, and the HW division not even a real division yet. It was kind of a joke.

Then came the protection years. This is why mentioning him in the same sentence with Ali is absurd. It was a shameful time for Fedor. At that point a very weird Fedor cult formed, fueled by Dana White hatred and maybe some other factors. He was puffed up as the best p4p in the world, something he was never anywhere close to. He took the low road and fought old school former champions and avoided the beasts that were incubating in the UFC. And then the low road proved too tough for him to handle getting dominated by Werdum and BF ( and almost getting beat by a tire salesman prior to that).

But getting smoked like that by a middleweight 6 years his elder, iced his legacy or lack thereof. Like it or not, he exposed himself. Like it or not, the legacy is out the window. Even the Sherdog talking heads aren't going to be able to resurrect him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anderton46 View Post
The guy is 34. People talk about these three losses as if they shouldn't count as he's too old and past it. But 34 really isn't old for a fighter. We see alot of guys just starting to fight at 30. He's done very well in his career up until this point, so his legacy will remain, he was the best HW for a set period.

But for those saying he's the best HW ever then that has no logic behind that. Seeing as he's already lost to two HW's they are surely better than him?
You're right there isn't . It's all emotional. And yes, he still is young, and Dan Henderson is not! More evidence this guy is (IMO) the most overrated fighter in MMA history, and perhaps in the history of all combat sports.

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Old 08-01-2011, 01:47 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Fedor is one of the best ever, no tarnish to his legacy whatsoever....so what? he lost after a decade of dominance and is suffering from what EVERY fighter will eventually come across....the decline of their dominance and/or deteriaton of their skills.

He's still the guy who survived getting slammed on his head and won, the guy who beat CroCop, Big Nog etc etc etc. some of those fights are part of MMA legend...

...just my view...and I don't even like the guy!
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Old 08-01-2011, 02:19 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LizaG View Post
....so what? he lost after a decade of dominance and is suffering from what EVERY fighter will eventually come across....the decline of their dominance and/or deteriaton of their skills....
I'm so thankful Henderson exposed this myth. His legacy will be a decade of ducking (maybe half a decade to be fair), rather than a decade of dominance.
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