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-   -   Does Judo have anything on Greco for MMA takedowns? It seems inferior? (http://www.mmaforum.com/grappling-technique/104675-does-judo-have-anything-greco-mma-takedowns-seems-inferior.html)

Curious1 08-25-2012 02:19 PM

Does Judo have anything on Greco for MMA takedowns? It seems inferior?
 
Like you need to off balance your opponent, theres counter throws to every throw you do, its designed for use with a GI, it just seems totally inferior for MMA use!?

Is it?

BigDeadFreak 09-08-2012 06:54 AM

Leg grabs have been removed from judo which seriously reduces it's effectiveness in MMA. I think it can still be useful from the clinch as a lot of the throws can be adapted for no gi situations and it can be very effective against people who have good takedown defence.

However, I don't think it's the most useful grappling style for MMA and is far more suited for self defence. Double leg takedowns are great one on one in a cage but are very risky on the street where you really don't want to be rolling around with you opponent. In that scenario an high impact throw like uchi mata can be lethal and most people wont know any of the counters so you shouldn't have to worry about that.

Voiceless 09-08-2012 08:57 AM

Judo would have a comparable function in MMA as (Greco-Roman) wrestling, yet it is slightly different. The training with a Gi has two sides to it. On the one side you are used to throw your opponent with the help of his Gi, which makes it easier to throw him, so it will be harder in MMA to throw people who don't have a Gi and Greco-Roman wrestling has an advantage of being used to throw people without a Gi. But then on the other side the Gi training will have an positive effect on you take down defense. You are used to defend against take downs where you opponent is helped by your Gi, so you develop an even stronger base.

And as I said in other threads, I believe that Judo will be the next style to be more appreciated in the next 3-5 years of MMA. At least in particular by BJJ based fighters as Judo is the origin of BJJ and therefor technically the most natural link between stand up and ground fighting for BJJ fighters. It is easier to transition from a Judo throw to BJJ submission grappling than from a wrestling take down (in particular collegiate) which brings you rather in a ground and pound position. And last but not least, Judo is probably much bigger in Brasil, where most BJJ fighters come from, than wrestling (as they don't have that collegiate wrestling culture like in the US), so it's also just easier for them to find good Judo partners for training than wrestlers.

Freelancer 09-08-2012 05:24 PM

I'm amazed that, as soon as the leg grabs were LIMITED(not removed!) from judo, people started comparing it to greco with a gi. Guys, there are still leg throws in judo, and even with the limited leg grabs, judo is still more versatile in throws than greco.

If a guy adapts his judo to no-gi, he will fare better than his greco counterpart, IMO. The adaptation is the biggest issue.

slapshot 09-09-2012 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freelancer (Post 1624675)
I'm amazed that, as soon as the leg grabs were LIMITED(not removed!) from judo, people started comparing it to greco with a gi. Guys, there are still leg throws in judo, and even with the limited leg grabs, judo is still more versatile in throws than greco.

If a guy adapts his judo to no-gi, he will fare better than his greco counterpart, IMO. The adaptation is the biggest issue.

Like he said limited not removed.

About how I feel, funny thing is Randy is known for greco and the move he used against James Toney is taught in judo. Maybe there is a greco version as well.

Its not the be all end all in MMA but its very rare to watch a MMA fight and not see judo used.

On the street though no art is better for self defense.

Freelancer 09-09-2012 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapshot (Post 1624805)
On the street though no art is better for self defense.

Maybe in one-on-one situations.:)
Against multiple opponents, hardly.

slapshot 09-09-2012 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freelancer (Post 1624866)
Maybe in one-on-one situations.:)
Against multiple opponents, hardly.

Multiple, armed, etc judo is the best martial art for self defense for the average person.

Freelancer 09-09-2012 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapshot (Post 1624869)
Multiple, armed, etc judo is the best martial art for self defense for the average person.

I disagree. I believe knowledge in striking is a necessity when dealing with multiple opponents. Judo has striking preserved in Kata, but without sparring it's not of much use.

Krav Maga has much better tactics for multiple opponents and armed fighting. It's sole focus is self defense, there's no sport or spiritual development involved(unless you count psychological preparation in it).

Voiceless 09-09-2012 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapshot (Post 1624869)
Multiple, armed, etc judo is the best martial art for self defense for the average person.

It depends on what kind of Judo you're referring to. Original Kano Judo or modern day Olympic style sports Judo. That's two very different things.

slapshot 09-09-2012 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freelancer (Post 1624874)
I disagree. I believe knowledge in striking is a necessity when dealing with multiple opponents. Judo has striking preserved in Kata, but without sparring it's not of much use.

Krav Maga has much better tactics for multiple opponents and armed fighting. It's sole focus is self defense, there's no sport or spiritual development involved(unless you count psychological preparation in it).

Well you're right I was thinking about judo self-defense class.

The judo based self defense class teaches striking. I guess some dojo's are different.


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