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post #41 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallysworld191 View Post
actually sounds more like he sucks...you should never tap to an Achilles lock, its just a pain move and cant cause any real damage. what was he a black belt in, because aint no effing way its in juijitsu, and if so he should just kill him self. like machida said, hed die before tap to Ortiz. point being a black belt shouldnt lose to anything other than a black belt.
Did you just say an Achilles Lock does no damage? Come on man, are you serious?
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post #42 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 09:29 PM
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Did you just say an Achilles Lock does no damage? Come on man, are you serious?
Technically, wally's right on this one. It's impossible to do long term damage with an Achilles Lock. That doesn't mean it doesn't hurt like hell, it's a good move if it's done right. What he's saying is that there's no physical danger and so many fighters refuse to tap to it. In fact, the popular dictum in Sambo is that you should never tap to an achilles lock, period.



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post #43 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 09:35 PM
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Technically, wally's right on this one. It's impossible to do long term damage with an Achilles Lock. That doesn't mean it doesn't hurt like hell, it's a good move if it's done right. What he's saying is that there's no physical danger and so many fighters refuse to tap to it. In fact, the popular dictum in Sambo is that you should never tap to an achilles lock, period.
Well, if done a certain way, an Achilles Lock can also be an ankle lock, therefore the danger of broken bones is present. Also, compression locks can cause damage to tendons. Maybe not a major injury, but damage can, and probably will, be done.
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post #44 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wawaweewa View Post
Well, if done a certain way, an Achilles Lock can also be an ankle lock, therefore the danger of broken bones is present. Also, compression locks can cause damage to tendons. Maybe not a major injury, but damage can, and probably will, be done.
The ankle is a joint and can only be broken by rotation of the foot. The "ankle lock" isn't an ankle lock at all, it's a slicer, and the traditional ankle lock lacks the leverage to snap the tendon, which is the only way to do serious long term damage.

The only transition from the position is to a heel hook, which is an attack on the ACL/MCL and can cause it to tear or snap off. Still, that's different than the "straight ankle lock" or "achilles lock."

There's no danger of a broken bone because there's no way you can create the leverage to break a bone. (the ankle is not a bone and can't be broken by straight pressure, I've established that already) If you are talking about breaking a bone in the shin, you'd better have some f*cking freakish strength, but it's not very likely.

So, let's revisit the possibilities. What's the worst that you can do?

Bruise the tendon or the calf muscle? That'd take some serious power, but okay, it could happen. Still, it's hardly going to last more than a few days.



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post #45 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 01:42 AM
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I've heard stories of people not tapping to ankle locks and receiving pretty major injuries, but maybe they were told wrong. Anyway, I'm pretty sure a straight ankle lock can tear ligaments.
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post #46 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 01:43 AM
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You can pop a tendon, that is a serious problem considering there is no blood flowing in a tendon, it takes a very long time to heal



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post #47 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 02:55 AM
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Wow you seriously think there's no damage to an achilles lock? Take your foot and rest it over your knee, then press down on the top part of your foot as hard as you possibly can. When you're done, waddle out to your car and go to the ER and then come back and tell me how many ligiments you tore bro. It's most definately not a "pain lock" like a lot of people seem to think. It can tear ligiments off your toes (very easily) and it can snap the bones in your foot very easily too. Torn ligiments take forever to heal and some never do. And to his credit, he didn't tap out to the pain part. When I had it locked solely around his tendon and the top of his foot it didnt do anything, the guy didnt even wince, but when I slid my shoulder to the top of his foot and started bending his ankle with it is when he tapped.
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post #48 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 02:58 AM
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post #49 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wawaweewa View Post
I've heard stories of people not tapping to ankle locks and receiving pretty major injuries, but maybe they were told wrong. Anyway, I'm pretty sure a straight ankle lock can tear ligaments.
Probably heel hooks. People forget the difference alot of the time, and the heel hook can really seriously f*ck up someone's legs.

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You can pop a tendon, that is a serious problem considering there is no blood flowing in a tendon, it takes a very long time to heal
Not with the leverage from the straight ankle lock. Yes, there are ways you can pop a tendon (calf-slicers and the like). You're right, though. A muscle or a tendon tear will take a long time to heal and most never fully recover.



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post #50 of 81 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by TraMaI View Post
Wow you seriously think there's no damage to an achilles lock? Take your foot and rest it over your knee, then press down on the top part of your foot as hard as you possibly can. When you're done, waddle out to your car and go to the ER and then come back and tell me how many ligiments you tore bro. It's most definately not a "pain lock" like a lot of people seem to think. It can tear ligiments off your toes (very easily) and it can snap the bones in your foot very easily too. Torn ligiments take forever to heal and some never do. And to his credit, he didn't tap out to the pain part. When I had it locked solely around his tendon and the top of his foot it didnt do anything, the guy didnt even wince, but when I slid my shoulder to the top of his foot and started bending his ankle with it is when he tapped.
Do you know the difference between a straight ankle lock and a heel hook? You're just making me doubt your story more, man.



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