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Old 02-10-2008, 05:43 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Maintaining and/or attacking from the closed guard

Hello fellow bros and broesses,

I accidentally posted this incorrectly in the wrong forum. However, I did get a great response from wukkadb. Sorry about the repetition!

Here's my question:

Let's say that your opponent is on his knees and inside your closed guard.

Your opponent has:
1. Good base.
2. Both hands on your hips for support.

He puts one knee against your tail bone and starts to move his other knee back to break open your closed guard. It is just a matter of time before he breaks your closed guard.

My question is what type of moves or counters would you use as an attack.

I have tried the Gi choke, but I had a hard time reaching his collar since he postured up.

I did not think an arm bar was possible since his hands were on my hips and also his arm was close to his own body.

Also, if you could recommend a DVD or book for this type of situation, that would be really be helpful.
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Old 02-10-2008, 04:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Maybe you should focus on your open guard, butterfly, x-guard, etc. if you're having problems with your guard being opened. Opening a guard and passing a guard are two completely different things
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Old 02-10-2008, 11:14 PM   #3 (permalink)
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This is a good, fundamental jiu-jitsu question, so I'll start with the basics before I start to talk about more difficult and advanced stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lalsh View Post
Here's my question:

Let's say that your opponent is on his knees and inside your closed guard.

Your opponent has:
1. Good base.
2. Both hands on your hips for support.

He puts one knee against your tail bone and starts to move his other knee back to break open your closed guard. It is just a matter of time before he breaks your closed guard.

My question is what type of moves or counters would you use as an attack.
As far as a personal preference, I would break his grip on my hips (depending on whether he's using the belt grip, gi style, or using a more standard no gi control attempt) by putting my hands inside of his and separating them out. This is pretty standard.

Once you do that, there are any of a dozen attacks. There's the classic attempt of breaking down his posture, but if he's trying to stay up, that may give him time to recover and put his hands back in.

What I would do is center yourself on him, so that he's not off to the side (though if he is, you can still attack him) and sit up for the hip sweep. If you fail with the hip sweep, which is to say he tries to pin you to the ground to keep you from putting him off balance, you can go to the kimura or the guillotine. (I usually go to the guillotine first, then the kimura, then follow with an omoplata if I can't get solid control)

There are a few others that work well off of the back, though I'm not as good at them. The first is the scizzor sweep. Again, it's important to make sure that you get his hands off of you belt, then just go for it.

The other is to use the threat of the hipsweep to break down his posture, which seems to be your primary problem.


Quote:
I have tried the Gi choke, but I had a hard time reaching his collar since he postured up.
Getting his hands off of your hips should solve your problems. This will allow you to sit up, break down his posture and finish.

Quote:
I did not think an arm bar was possible since his hands were on my hips and also his arm was close to his own body.
I will say this very explicitly, but you really need to get your hips out to be effective from this position. What you have to do to take the armbar is hook the elbow and pull it tight to you. This will solve both your problems, as he will no longer be pinning down the hips and his arm will no longer be close to him.

Quote:
Also, if you could recommend a DVD or book for this type of situation, that would be really be helpful.
Marcelo Garcia's stuff is very good. Various samples are on youtube.
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Old 02-11-2008, 03:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by IronMan View Post
This is a good, fundamental jiu-jitsu question, so I'll start with the basics before I start to talk about more difficult and advanced stuff.



As far as a personal preference, I would break his grip on my hips (depending on whether he's using the belt grip, gi style, or using a more standard no gi control attempt) by putting my hands inside of his and separating them out. This is pretty standard.

Once you do that, there are any of a dozen attacks. There's the classic attempt of breaking down his posture, but if he's trying to stay up, that may give him time to recover and put his hands back in.

What I would do is center yourself on him, so that he's not off to the side (though if he is, you can still attack him) and sit up for the hip sweep. If you fail with the hip sweep, which is to say he tries to pin you to the ground to keep you from putting him off balance, you can go to the kimura or the guillotine. (I usually go to the guillotine first, then the kimura, then follow with an omoplata if I can't get solid control)

There are a few others that work well off of the back, though I'm not as good at them. The first is the scizzor sweep. Again, it's important to make sure that you get his hands off of you belt, then just go for it.

The other is to use the threat of the hipsweep to break down his posture, which seems to be your primary problem.




Getting his hands off of your hips should solve your problems. This will allow you to sit up, break down his posture and finish.



I will say this very explicitly, but you really need to get your hips out to be effective from this position. What you have to do to take the armbar is hook the elbow and pull it tight to you. This will solve both your problems, as he will no longer be pinning down the hips and his arm will no longer be close to him.



Marcelo Garcia's stuff is very good. Various samples are on youtube.
Iron Mans suggestions are dead on. You cannot allow your opponent to establish that kind of posture. You need to be always "crunching" him back down....this means pulling your knees to your head while also pushing your head to your knees. Do both explosively.

One thing to try if you cannot bring him to you: Go to him. Sit up. Sit in his lap, put your hands on the floor and sit up as far as you can. Then wrap your arms around him (get around his arms and all, like a bear hug). Now pul him back down with you.

Open your guard when YOU want to, not when he wants you wants you to.
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