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Old 04-19-2009, 02:07 PM   #141 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Venetian View Post
Hey guys!!
I haven't done bjj that long (5 months actually) and while im getting better and better each time i get stuck in a situation with some guys i train with.
That's what the thread is here for.

Quote:
Basically these guys continiously go for front/lapel style chokes when i land in their guard.
-I was taught to keep one hand pressed to them so i could stop their second hand from reaching my collar/lapel. Eventually they'll use their legs bring me in close and catch me that way.
O.K., here's your problem:

It's not enough to just press a hand on the guy and push yourself up, so let me walk you through the basic guard posture.
  1. Sit back so that your ass is on your heels.
  2. Keep your shoulders over your hips and your hips over your feet.
  3. Keep your hands on your opponents belt (for gi) or hips (for no-gi).
  4. Keep your elbows in tight when you can.
  5. If they try and sit up, push the belt up (gi) or apply pressure higher (no-gi).
  6. From there, work to crack the closed guard by attacking the inside of their legs.

Now, here are a list of things to be careful of in the guard.
  1. Do not lean forward past their hips, as you will get broken down immediately.
  2. Do not let one arm drop out of the guard without keeping the elbow of the arm tight, so you can avoid the triangle.
  3. Do not let your opponent sit out of the guard without grabbing control of his pants and working to pass.


Quote:
-I never voluntarily go down (i try to stay postured) but these guys always manage to pull me down into the choke.
If they're breaking your posture, that means your posture is not as good as it needs to be. Keep working these basics. Hopefully the pointers will help, but it's really one of those things you just have to do.

Remember to stay relaxed in the guard. Remember not to lean forward.

Most of all, though, remember to work the legs for the pass. If they're worried about you passing, then they'll be more focused on maintaining position than securing the choke.


Quote:
-I can check the guys hand (ive also tried the telephone) but then i just end up continiously defending when i really gotta get moving with the guard break.
Then tuck the chin and go balls-to-the-wall with the pass. If you dip the jaw down to your collarbone to make it hard to finish the choke, then work quickly on the position.

It may not work, but it's worth practicing, as it may pay off if you can get through.

Still, though, focus on the posture in the guard, as I think that's almost certainly your problem.


Quote:
Apologies for my lack of knowledge/experience aswell.
No worries. Everyone starts somewhere.
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Old 04-19-2009, 02:16 PM   #142 (permalink)
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Thanks for the quick response Ironman!

You really helped break the situation down bit by bit.
I have training in 2 days and i'll be sure to re-read your response several times before it.

Thanks again!
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Old 05-04-2009, 02:46 AM   #143 (permalink)
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IronMan:

Any tips on how to get out of a situation related to scarfmount.

I was rolling with someone who got into scarfmount position, put his legs over my head, and eventually caught me in a kimura. I figured out what he was attempting to do when he put his leg over my head, but by then it was far too late to get out of it.

Any quick tips on getting out of scarf mount?
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Old 05-04-2009, 10:07 AM   #144 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomus View Post
IronMan:

Any tips on how to get out of a situation related to scarfmount.

I was rolling with someone who got into scarfmount position, put his legs over my head, and eventually caught me in a kimura. I figured out what he was attempting to do when he put his leg over my head, but by then it was far too late to get out of it.

Any quick tips on getting out of scarf mount?
Alright, I'm going to assume that scarf mount and scarf hold are the same thing, if they're not, then correct me.

The scarf hold, I should note, is really only when they have control of the head alone. When they have the underhook on the other side, it becomes a totally different position.

First, I should get out the way two things.
  1. I hate this position.
  2. The best way to escape is never to be there.

Still, since I've started doing judo I've spent a lot of time working on this position, as most of my training partners really, really like it.

The first thing to do is keep yourself from getting flat (this is always the first thing to do when your opponent is in a dominant position). With this particular position that means getting one of your shoulders off of the mat.

The best way to do that is to twist your hips towards your opponent. This will bring your far shoulder off of the mat.

In gi grappling, you can reach around to grab the belt (which establishes control) and then roll back over your shoulders so that they're on their back, which reverses the position.

In no-gi, when you can't grab the belt, you can still execute that same reversal, but, frankly, it's much harder.

I prefer, once I twist my hips up, to turn my hips over (so that I come up to my knees), get that hook around the body (without the gi, there's no belt to grab, but it's the same hook) and then sit back to pop the head out. This can put some strain on the neck, but once the head is out, you have control of the back.
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Old 05-04-2009, 01:17 PM   #145 (permalink)
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Just a quick question about scarf hold. (my class just drilled the crap out of scarf escapes last week)

In the picture you gave, the close arm isn't secured at all, is that normal or just a "do it how you prefer" type thing?

I realize that was probably just a decent picture of the position you found, so I guess what I'm asking is, do you secure the close arm under/between your legs or just leave it loose?
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Old 05-04-2009, 02:04 PM   #146 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CFT_Ian View Post
Just a quick question about scarf hold. (my class just drilled the crap out of scarf escapes last week)

In the picture you gave, the close arm isn't secured at all, is that normal or just a "do it how you prefer" type thing?
Yeah, that was just to give an example of the position, that's not how I control the scarfhold at all.

I use the scarfhold primarily for gi and grab by the tricept on the arm and the back of the collar around the head (deep) to get a solid grip.


Quote:
I realize that was probably just a decent picture of the position you found, so I guess what I'm asking is, do you secure the close arm under/between your legs or just leave it loose?
I secure the arm with the outside hand (what would be the left hand in that picture).

Like I said, though, this is a gi based move that I use in judo as a pin, not a move I use in jiu-jitsu or MMA because it becomes nearly impossible to set up a submission with your hips facing the ceiling like that.

Personally, I turn my hips over and go to work from side control. As someone who goes to the back a lot when people go for this position, I understand how easy it is to get there, and consider this position way too risky without a gi to hold on to.

With the gi, it's nice because when they try to escape by rolling away from you, it's pretty easy to spin into an armbar if you're quick about it. Unfortunately, I'm only using that in training now (I'm not a blackbelt in judo yet, and until you reach that level, the armbar is not legal in competition), but it's a great setup with the gi on.
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:10 PM   #147 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CFT_Ian View Post
Just a quick question about scarf hold. (my class just drilled the crap out of scarf escapes last week)

In the picture you gave, the close arm isn't secured at all, is that normal or just a "do it how you prefer" type thing?

I realize that was probably just a decent picture of the position you found, so I guess what I'm asking is, do you secure the close arm under/between your legs or just leave it loose?
his arm is secured his shoulder is riding his knee, while his grip keeps him close,

i start to secure his arm using my legs and stepping on his wrist for an armbar, or i attack sliding my close knee into his arm pit and kick over with my outside leg attacking an armbar.
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Old 05-09-2009, 11:11 AM   #148 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan View Post
Alright, I'm going to assume that scarf mount and scarf hold are the same thing, if they're not, then correct me.

The scarf hold, I should note, is really only when they have control of the head alone. When they have the underhook on the other side, it becomes a totally different position.

First, I should get out the way two things.
  1. I hate this position.
  2. The best way to escape is never to be there.

Still, since I've started doing judo I've spent a lot of time working on this position, as most of my training partners really, really like it.

The first thing to do is keep yourself from getting flat (this is always the first thing to do when your opponent is in a dominant position). With this particular position that means getting one of your shoulders off of the mat.

The best way to do that is to twist your hips towards your opponent. This will bring your far shoulder off of the mat.

In gi grappling, you can reach around to grab the belt (which establishes control) and then roll back over your shoulders so that they're on their back, which reverses the position.

In no-gi, when you can't grab the belt, you can still execute that same reversal, but, frankly, it's much harder.

I prefer, once I twist my hips up, to turn my hips over (so that I come up to my knees), get that hook around the body (without the gi, there's no belt to grab, but it's the same hook) and then sit back to pop the head out. This can put some strain on the neck, but once the head is out, you have control of the back.
Totally true. IronMan, have you seen the escapes series with Marcelo Garcia (it's about bridging). He shows some pimpin' escapes there (and yours is ofc one of them). There's one when you grab a bodylock, bridge to get your hips under your opponenet and then reverse him that just looks beautiful. Too bad I drill far too few sidecontrol escapes...
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Old 05-09-2009, 03:33 PM   #149 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joppp View Post
Totally true. IronMan, have you seen the escapes series with Marcelo Garcia (it's about bridging). He shows some pimpin' escapes there (and yours is ofc one of them). There's one when you grab a bodylock, bridge to get your hips under your opponenet and then reverse him that just looks beautiful. Too bad I drill far too few sidecontrol escapes...
Yeah, Marcelo's escapes are awesome. The real problem is that you have to be as quick as Marcelo and as fluid and explosive as him to land them on an opponent a lot larger than you (at least, with that particular body-lock reversal). I have a hard time pulling that one off.

Plus, I like going to the back, as I find I can transition to a lot of dominant positions from there with a lot more ease, and I never end up in my opponent's guard when I have control of the back. At least, not in one move.
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Old 05-10-2009, 06:44 PM   #150 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan View Post
Yeah, Marcelo's escapes are awesome. The real problem is that you have to be as quick as Marcelo and as fluid and explosive as him to land them on an opponent a lot larger than you (at least, with that particular body-lock reversal). I have a hard time pulling that one off.

Plus, I like going to the back, as I find I can transition to a lot of dominant positions from there with a lot more ease, and I never end up in my opponent's guard when I have control of the back. At least, not in one move.
I hear ya, It really can be hard to do some of his escapes! Like you, If I can get the back I'll go for that rather than the reversal.
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