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Old 09-18-2009, 11:19 PM   #201 (permalink)
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Old 09-19-2009, 12:20 AM   #202 (permalink)
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just what i needed started grappling a week ago and didn't know what i was doing most of the time. I LOVE THIS FORUM!
Good to hear, man. If you've got questions flip through here or feel free to post.
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Old 10-04-2009, 12:18 AM   #203 (permalink)
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Hey Iron man, I need your help about setting up armbars. How do you separate your opponents arms when he is griping his gi or his hand to prevent it, especially if he grips it tight?

It's a regular position, you are on his side, you've positioned the legs and got your arm underneath his elbow. How do you break his grip? If you can find some video instruction I'd be very grateful too.
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Old 10-04-2009, 01:12 AM   #204 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Freelancer View Post
Hey Iron man, I need your help about setting up armbars. How do you separate your opponents arms when he is griping his gi or his hand to prevent it, especially if he grips it tight?

It's a regular position, you are on his side, you've positioned the legs and got your arm underneath his elbow. How do you break his grip? If you can find some video instruction I'd be very grateful too.
There's a ton of material on this online.

Ari Bolden has a really cool trick called the Silverado.

Personally, though, I have two attacks on the arm that I like to use.

The first is one I learned from Steve Maxwell, but I try and avoid it a lot of the time because if you finish it as an arm compressor, then it can get you DQ'd.

The move is pretty simple, though. Gable grip so that your thumb and the top of your radius is digging into his bicept, take your bottom leg and lay it flat (so that the side of the shin and the calf are down) against his wrists or the far forearm. Lean back and tighten up the pressure.

This is, actually, a bicept slicer and that will force him to release the grip or to tap (verbally, usually, because he can't move his hands). The fact that it's a bicept slicer is what makes it illegal in a lot of competitions, but I rarely ever finish with the slicer if I apply the pressure slowly with the legs. If you apply it quickly and tighten the legs up, it's really easy to force the tap with the slicer.

Some guys are smart and will let the hands break and try to roll out.

There are two ways to beat this:

1. Hammer down with the top leg. This is actually a good way to start the move initially, and it prevents the roll up because it keeps pressure on the neck. This has a risk, though, of letting an opponent with strong hips roll up on you.

2. Transition to the triangle. As they roll up, remove the top leg and twist to the side to hook their leg (preventing the slam) and setting up an appropriate angle. This is one of my favorite moves, personally. I like setting up the triangle from the top, as I find it's a lot tighter.

The second way of freeing the arm is one I picked up from watching Demian Maia and actually asked Royler Gracie to help me with at a seminar (which is why this description has some details you won't hear from most instructors).

It's a lot easier to free the arm when the elbow is up. It's away from their core and it makes it difficult for them to effectively use the pecs and back to defend the submission, making for better control. Even if you have the bottom leg in, you'll notice that they can still pull the elbow down, often into the thigh of whatever leg you have across the body. This doesn't help them escape at all, but it makes it harder to finish the armbar.

A lot of guys try and attack the wrist when they get to the position you described. As Royler pointed out to me, if you watch the guys who are really good at locking in the armbars off the top, and making people tap fast, they actually attack their opponent's elbow.

Use your top hand to hook under the elbow and pull it up towards your top leg. Keeping your knees pinched together and your heels pressing down will keep them from bridging up and into you, knocking you over. When you've opened the elbow, then you can lock the elbow in place with your bottom arm (hook under with your forearm and keep the knees pinched to control the position, grabbing your own lapel with your bottom hand), then move up to the wrist with the top hand.

Don't pull the wrist up and yank at it. That's a waste of energy.

Instead, control the wrist with your hand and rotate your upper body towards your opponent's head. Keep your hips down and heels pressing towards or into the mat to make sure they don't bridge into you. Rotating with the whole of your upper body and in a twisting motion will make it really hard for your opponent to hold on and liberates the arm pretty easily.

Personally, I use the first method and then, if I get frustrated, I move to the second, which is more sure-fire and a little more brutal.

EDIT: Damn this was a long post. Hope that was helpful.
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:00 AM   #205 (permalink)
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Hey Ironman, I know this question has been asked, but honestly it's really not working for me. How do you escape side mount if your opponent is actually trying to lay and pray. In Judo every time someone gets to side control, all they care about is getting the hold down and not the finish. I can't seem to escape because I really suck a bridgeing. I wouldn't mind regaining guard however.

Another question. How do I regain guard from quarter guard. In BJJ I only train Gi, and any time someone gets to quarter guard, they just go for GI chokes instead of trying to pass. This makes it difficult for me to escape. Any advice?
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #206 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKY View Post
Hey Ironman, I know this question has been asked, but honestly it's really not working for me. How do you escape side mount if your opponent is actually trying to lay and pray. In Judo every time someone gets to side control, all they care about is getting the hold down and not the finish. I can't seem to escape because I really suck a bridgeing. I wouldn't mind regaining guard however.

Another question. How do I regain guard from quarter guard. In BJJ I only train Gi, and any time someone gets to quarter guard, they just go for GI chokes instead of trying to pass. This makes it difficult for me to escape. Any advice?
Question #1

Grappling whether it be BJJ or Judo it's all about space. Guy on top wants to give you as little space as possible to keep you pinned to the mat. Guy on the bottom (you in this case) wants to create space. You get under someone with an excellent side control and it's a real pain to get out from under then because they take all the space and suck it up. You are going to have to create space...

What I would do is spend extra time working on your bridge and your shrimps...if you can get better at bridging and shrimping then you can escape side control...you can't get your hips out and move them you are a sitting duck.

We have a few guys in our gym that are BIG and SUPER STRONG with killer side controls. What I always do in the gi is bump hard and shoot the inside arm in between the leg and hip...you want about middle of your forearm blocking the hip. Once I have that in place I'm going to reach across the throat with the outside arm and get a collar grip. From here I'm going to bridge hard, push off with both arms, and shrimp. From this position I'll have the interior knee on the inside (you should be on your inside hip) then I'll swing the outside leg in for a butterfly and swing myself into butterfly guard (or full guard depending on what I'm feeling like that day).

Edit: Forgot to mention, once you get the space and shrimp and have created the room to make your move you DO NOT want to let go of your hand grips. If you let go of these grips against a good grappler he's going to quickly make a move and pass you before you can establish your guard. Use your space and grips to keep him from passing you during transition. If you are rolling nogi and don't have the option for grips just make sure you have plenty of space.

Another good escape that's been working for me for a long time is feeding the inside arm completely under your opponent and coming out on the bottom side (around your waist). Once I get that arm free I'm going to shoot it up under my opponents armpit, bump up onto my outside hip, then scissor the legs, and try to come around the head (almost into a head lock position). With this escape you should end up on your knees in a neutral position...there is also a d'arce choke from here that I like catching people with, but I'd focus on getting out first and foremost.

Question #2 is a pretty good one. Tons of people get stuck in 1/4 guard and get caught with collar chokes, d'arce chokes, guillotine, armbars, etc...#1 thing you have to remember is to keep tight, you want to keep on your side and keep your body buried into his. I try to get my head around the belt region of my opponent and stay tight as possible. Once you get tight all you have to do is push on the knee and switch your hips to the other side to reset a complete half guard, then switch back the other way to solidify the position. Once you get there if you aren't good with half guard I'd try and set up a lockdown and work either ole school or plan b (depending if he posts the leg...always go for ole school first). If you aren't good at bumping your hips try and work your underhook and get back to dogfight position, which is neutral.

Hope this helps you some.

Last edited by BlacklistShaun : 10-08-2009 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:58 AM   #207 (permalink)
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:34 AM   #208 (permalink)
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Great thread
Glad you guys like it. Feel free to ask questions if they come up.

I'm going to go through at some point next week and index pages 11-20 as I did with pages 1-10 (you can see on the first page that all of the techniques are listed and linked to, so they're easier to find).


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Originally Posted by GKY View Post
Hey Ironman, I know this question has been asked, but honestly it's really not working for me. How do you escape side mount if your opponent is actually trying to lay and pray. In Judo every time someone gets to side control, all they care about is getting the hold down and not the finish. I can't seem to escape because I really suck a bridgeing. I wouldn't mind regaining guard however.
Yeah, this is one of the problems I found my first few weeks of training judo style newaza, and it's a great question.

Shaun's answers are actually a pretty good way of getting back to guard in a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu context and, if you go back to the index on the first page, I'm pretty sure I get into some detail about escaping the side control in BJJ.

However the standard bump and shrimp is really not effective against an opponent who's entire focus is on controlling your shoulders. The reason why shrimping and creating space is so much easier in jiu-jitsu is because guys usually are looking for the mount, so they're trying to move to advance the position.

So, my advice in the context of judo is actually going to take a little longer to execute, but is still pretty straight forward. It's worth noting that these are going to put you on top and not back in the guard. At the end I'll explain how you can go back to the guard instead of getting the reversal.

Also, these are pretty traditional judo reversals from what I've been able to gather.

Try and get on one side. The standard jiu-jitsu defense is to bridge, get to the side, shrimp out and sneak the leg in. I don't both with this in judo, because the other guy, not thinking about the submission, is going to apply pressure to the shoulders and ignore the position.

So get on your side and take some time getting there (remember, you've got 15 seconds before he starts scoring; use it to secure a position that you feel you can use effectively before you start looking for reversals). Sink in an underhook, either on the belt or on the leg, then rock him either across your body or to the other side.

If you just want to go back to guard, or are finding that he's blocking your rolls before you can completely turn him over, that should create the necessary space to shrimp out and sneak a leg in to put him in guard.

If he has both underhooks, you're generally in trouble. What I've been doing, and it's been working against guys my size, is to slide my hips out and turn him over. There's a kick-up move that my coach has been trying to get me to use, but I'm not quick enough to make that part effective yet.


Quote:
Another question. How do I regain guard from quarter guard. In BJJ I only train Gi, and any time someone gets to quarter guard, they just go for GI chokes instead of trying to pass. This makes it difficult for me to escape. Any advice?
Now it's worth noting that my entire understanding of quarter guard is based on work with 10th Planet guys, and I usually avoid the position because I see it as a transition back to half from a disadvantaged position.

The first thing to remember is that your opponent is definitely going to attack you to get past the quarter guard, either to score points for their position or to regain it. Those attacks have to be addressed as they come, either by looking for a sweep from the position to give him something else to worry about, or by making sure he can't attack you by creating a more advantaged position.

The most effective way to get from the quarter guard to the full guard is to go by way of the half guard, in my experience. However, I rarely go back straight to the full guard.

The answer is, basically, to stuff the knee as you roll to your other side. If your opponent is attempting a collar choke, this move needs to be fast. Put both hands on the knee, stuff it and, as you're stuffing it, roll so that your outside arm can more effectively achieve and then use the underhook.

From half guard, the transition back to full guard is, generally, very easy. So I won't bother getting into that unless you need it.

Still, remember that if you want this to work, make sure you're actively looking to use the sweeps you know. Sometimes that will make your opponent back off the pressure a little bit and give you the space and time you need to regain the half.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:46 AM   #209 (permalink)
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If he has both underhooks, you're generally in trouble. What I've been doing, and it's been working against guys my size, is to slide my hips out and turn him over. There's a kick-up move that my coach has been trying to get me to use, but I'm not quick enough to make that part effective yet.
There is a move I use and I'm not sure but it sounds similar to what you are talking about using.

What I do is get both my hands in there (like I normally would for a shrimp escape) and then push off to make a little space. I'll shoot and underhook under on the outside arm side deep as I can. Once I have my underhook I'll scissor and roll into them using my underhook and head to drive them back (head to chest), which rolls them over. Is that close to what you are talking about??

Another one that I used on some of our Judo guys is getting the arm under and scooping a leg...keep driving into them until I feel them push into me hard trying to drive me down. When they push into me I turn hard away, lift as hard as I can with the leg, and bump all at the same time. It's a power move, but it works as long as the guy is close in size...I've actually done it to several guys that have 50+lbs. on me.
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:10 PM   #210 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GKY View Post
Hey Ironman, I know this question has been asked, but honestly it's really not working for me. How do you escape side mount if your opponent is actually trying to lay and pray. In Judo every time someone gets to side control, all they care about is getting the hold down and not the finish. I can't seem to escape because I really suck a bridgeing. I wouldn't mind regaining guard however.

Another question. How do I regain guard from quarter guard. In BJJ I only train Gi, and any time someone gets to quarter guard, they just go for GI chokes instead of trying to pass. This makes it difficult for me to escape. Any advice?
About side control in Judo, what kind of side control exactly are you talking about? The standard yoko-shiho-gatame where he has one arm under your leg and another under your neck and arm, or a different one?
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