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post #81 of 231 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 12:50 PM
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I don't know that this is really "basics" in a sense, but I'm a bit stuck. At the end of every BJJ class, we roll a little bit. Typically, I'll partner up with someone and we'll start on our knees (so as not to give any person an advantage or having any oversized takedowns). My problem is nothing we've covered in class involves both people being on their knees. As such, I have no idea what to do, and (being reactively minded in the rolling) I find myself getting submitted without even being mounted (or getting a shot to go into a guard). In other words, from the knees, my partner will manage to put me in a guillotine or somehow pull off a kimura, leaving me in want of an actual technique to use... instead resorting to an ugly survival mindset.

I'll see if there's anything on Submissions101, but, since this doesn't seem a likely scenario outside of the classroom (either in competition or survival), I thought I would ask. So, any suggestions?


EDIT: Found this with a little research, it's a lot like what I was looking for. Sub101's Knees Strategy Consider my question answered, but any more tips/thoughts/ideas you may have would still be appreciated.

-Kenny
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Last edited by Kendrik; 08-08-2008 at 01:47 PM. Reason: Found what I was looking for.
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post #82 of 231 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 04:21 PM
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You can just pull guard if you want to, or you can clinch up and drop for a double leg.
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post #83 of 231 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendrik View Post
I don't know that this is really "basics" in a sense, but I'm a bit stuck. At the end of every BJJ class, we roll a little bit. Typically, I'll partner up with someone and we'll start on our knees (so as not to give any person an advantage or having any oversized takedowns). My problem is nothing we've covered in class involves both people being on their knees. As such, I have no idea what to do, and (being reactively minded in the rolling) I find myself getting submitted without even being mounted (or getting a shot to go into a guard). In other words, from the knees, my partner will manage to put me in a guillotine or somehow pull off a kimura, leaving me in want of an actual technique to use... instead resorting to an ugly survival mindset.
This survival instinct you talk of is the basis for any grappler starting out .

Until you have a decent amount of experience and you're rolling with way better guys, you want to be setting yourself goals like 'don't get tapped by this guy'. That way you build up a stellar sub defense. Meanwhile at the classes you'll be learning attacks and you can start feeding them in once you are confident and have stopped getting tapped out every minute.

As to starting off, you can pull guard or go for a takedown depending on what you're comfortable with. I usually prefer to pull guard because I like sweeping and can usually end up in a much better position than if I were to go for a takedown.

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post #84 of 231 (permalink) Old 08-10-2008, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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Alright, I got another one for yall, let me know when Im getting annoying. I was watching the Fedor vs Hong Man Choi fight and Fedor pulls the slick arm bar from the bottom, could I get some advice for setting up for one of those on the bottom? I watched that and almost drooled, so I figured I might as well ask. Thanks
This is what the thread's for.

Watch this first for the basics. Once you get this done, you can work on getting the submission alot faster, the way that Fedor does.

Fedor is doing the same thing, only quicker. He's spinning with the same movement, only he's opening his leg to clear the head a little faster.



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post #85 of 231 (permalink) Old 08-10-2008, 05:04 PM
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Just a simple question:

When breaking someone's guard with your elbows into their inner thighs, is there any disadvantage in gable gripping your hands to prevent getting triangled? I do this but I don't wanna find out further down the line when rolling with experts that it opens me up for an attack.

Thnaks
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post #86 of 231 (permalink) Old 08-10-2008, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pauly_j View Post
Just a simple question:

When breaking someone's guard with your elbows into their inner thighs, is there any disadvantage in gable gripping your hands to prevent getting triangled? I do this but I don't wanna find out further down the line when rolling with experts that it opens me up for an attack.

Thnaks
Alright, pauly. Thanks for the reminder.

The disadvantage to the gable grip is that if you let your elbows hang a little bit, it gives your opponent a lot of opportunity for an armbar, and a smart opponent will not just let you drill into the thigh, they will tighten that guard off to close off the thigh and pull it up in order to draw out those elbows. I set up alot of armbars on opponents who gable grip initially.

The other problem is that if you keep your hands together, you may forget to keep your hands down, because you may give your opponent the opportunity to sit up and pull you down or catch the hip sweep.

None of these things is inherently problematic for the gable grip, in the guard (and I'm talking about the open guard here more than the closed guard, where you should be more focused on posture).

If your opponents guard is open, the first thing you need to do to prevent the triangle is to back out and maintain the posture. Don't worry about the position of your arms as much as you worry about your opponent breaking you down in the open guard, because if you have your posture, the triangle is easily avoidable, and so is the armbar.

What you should be doing is connecting your elbows to your knees as you work to pass. Once you do that and box out the legs, there is no threat of the triangle. The gable grip will defend against the basic triangle attempt, but since it does feed some of the more sophisticated moves, like open/butterfly guard sweeps, kneebars, armbars and a more advanced version of the triangle.

If you have that connection, you can back out of the guard and you can look patiently for that pass or, once you're all the way out, grab the feet and work for the toreando.

Hope that was helpful. If so, rep it. If not, let me know what needs clarification.



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post #87 of 231 (permalink) Old 08-10-2008, 05:33 PM
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Ah, great info. I wondered why the guy with the good guard game was going for armbars on me more than anyone else. Good thing I'm good at pulling my arm out. I'll concentrate more on keeping a good posture. Ta, and repped.

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post #88 of 231 (permalink) Old 08-11-2008, 11:55 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pauly_j View Post
Ah, great info. I wondered why the guy with the good guard game was going for armbars on me more than anyone else. Good thing I'm good at pulling my arm out. I'll concentrate more on keeping a good posture. Ta, and repped.
Thanks, man.

Please, folks, post some questions.



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post #89 of 231 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 12:44 AM
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Less technique, more basic perspective.

I've been at BJJ for upward towards two months so far (two 40-45 minute classes a week), and... feel like I suck epically. I see what I need to do, I understand proper form and concept, but my body doesn't want to follow my mind (having not been anything close to athletic since early youth, that isn't so much a surprise). Moreover, I go through what I can remember in my mind (so many things are demonstrated with so little time to practice and truly grasp), but seem to forget a majority of things when it's time to roll.

Will these things (proper techniques and form) become more instinctive with practice and experience? Is it likely (again, including practice as a factor) that the disconnect betwen mind and body will be reduced in time?


Also, what things would you recommend I do to work on flexibility? I'm rather bendable considering my relative lack of fitness (helpful in being able to resist an early tapping), but I have a hard time manipulating my body (my legs in particular) to gain a better position. Any tips?

-Kenny
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post #90 of 231 (permalink) Old 08-12-2008, 10:02 AM
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IronMan: How do you escape or avoid twister side control? If someone gets it on you you're at least going to get mounted...

Also: How do you escape the Judo style Side control? It's a great control position I just don't know how to get out from...

(No-Gi options are the only interesting options in my case)

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