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View Poll Results: Gi or No GI?

Gi 7 43.75%
No Gi 9 56.25%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-15-2009, 11:41 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by joppp View Post
I did list a reason that most of the mayor players have a gi background: that 99% of the good gyms are gi! Also, His brownbelts beat blackbelts in competition. Sean Bolinger is a good example. Jerome Basilio is like 19, 20 or something and he's owning people all over the place.

And I do know of Viera, but he does actually grapple a lot withut the gi (and the transition from gi to no gi is not THAT hard). But still Kazushi tapped some Gracies and Barnett grappled on even terms with Big Nog. Neither grappled with the gi as far as I know. If the gi is so good, why don't you train wrestling with the gi as well?

Just another side of the case. And of course extremely biased towards me, since I prefer no-gi because I enjoy it more. Way, way more. A thing that happened to me when I made the transition is that half of my submission game dissapeared: The arm bars from guard gets different (no sleve, more sweat etc.), the Anaconda, RNC and brabo choke were very difficult to do with the gi (so you didn't really do them) and all the gi chokes are gone. Personally I felt I got sloppier WITH the gi: I was leaving way too much space and didn't properl÷y use the over and underhooks.
Sean Bollinger & Jerome Basilio are good, but back to my question who place in a major tourny? i like how you side stepped and said they beat up on black belts.

saku is one of my favorite grapplers, yes he is a catch wrestler such as barrnet, yes they are nogi guys, but saku did go to school in japan right? well if he did he did judo in school. judo is part of japanese physical education system, as told to me by my uncle whom is first genertaion japanese born and raised in japan till about 25 years of age. and also told to me by all the japanese judoka that stop by my dojo. anyway as i said every art will have studs. such as karate you have lyoto machida, and greasy ass gsp. but because karate works for them does not mean it anyone that does karate will rule mma.

i am speaking % wise as you are. 99% of good gyms are gi based, theat means 1% of gyms are nogi based. when will these strictly based nogi guys start winning at tournyments that count? one time wins anyone can do it, but as a %. as for traing wrestling wearing a gi, come on, that is like me telling you to run a maration in boots(that is stupid)....

now as for your problem with arm bars from guard, anaconda, rnc and brabo choke, or you feeling of giving too much space ... that is a persoal problem, pretty much sounds like you need to work on your basics alot more. i do gi & nogi, i started with a gi and i prefer a gi, because i have many more grips and variations of throws & takedowns, i can control the legs more efficient, i have more 980634765 chokes, and when i or my opponet escapes it was earned.
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Old 02-16-2009, 01:21 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I accidentally voted No-Gi before reading the thread question..

I personally prefer No-gi because it's closer to MMA, in my opinion. But like some of the other guys said, the gi is really good for improving your technical skills and there are a lot of additional techniques that can only be done with the gi.
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:15 AM   #23 (permalink)
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thanks 4 all the help. i wasnt sure which type 2 choose. i had an eddie bravo book, but wasnt sure whether he was right.
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Old 02-16-2009, 09:58 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Sean Bollinger & Jerome Basilio are good, but back to my question who place in a major tourny? i like how you side stepped and said they beat up on black belts.

saku is one of my favorite grapplers, yes he is a catch wrestler such as barrnet, yes they are nogi guys, but saku did go to school in japan right? well if he did he did judo in school. judo is part of japanese physical education system, as told to me by my uncle whom is first genertaion japanese born and raised in japan till about 25 years of age. and also told to me by all the japanese judoka that stop by my dojo. anyway as i said every art will have studs. such as karate you have lyoto machida, and greasy ass gsp. but because karate works for them does not mean it anyone that does karate will rule mma.

i am speaking % wise as you are. 99% of good gyms are gi based, theat means 1% of gyms are nogi based. when will these strictly based nogi guys start winning at tournyments that count? one time wins anyone can do it, but as a %. as for traing wrestling wearing a gi, come on, that is like me telling you to run a maration in boots(that is stupid)....

now as for your problem with arm bars from guard, anaconda, rnc and brabo choke, or you feeling of giving too much space ... that is a persoal problem, pretty much sounds like you need to work on your basics alot more. i do gi & nogi, i started with a gi and i prefer a gi, because i have many more grips and variations of throws & takedowns, i can control the legs more efficient, i have more 980634765 chokes, and when i or my opponet escapes it was earned.
First of all: I respect your oppinion and I am aware that history kind of speaks against what I say. Also, I see the facet that makes the Gi fun, but for me the negative factors (too many handles, you sweat your guts out, you have to straighten it out all the time) outweighed the positive ones for me. But seriously, it might be even less than 1% of the black belt level gyms that are mainly no-gi. I still can't think of anyone else than eddie bravo (and I think Leo Viera is pretty No-gi based, don't know however)

And the marathon thing is the same as training for no-gi with a gi IMO whatever the sport. If you are competing no-gi, train no- gi and of course vice versa. And do you really think Saku's Judo training at school with the gi was what made him so good? The gi is not magical you know... It's not like everyone who touches it becomes better authomatically. He would have boecome equally well if he had trained No-gi. The Gi actually allows for more space, and under and overhooks are completely overlooked. As for the basics thing: I was pretty new to grappling back then, so I might have exaggerated how sloppy I became. As of now I am tighter than ever, and it is mostly thanks to my no-gi training.

And for your no-gi game, the gi doesn what? Teach tightness? If anything, that's what the No-gi game teaches. Who told anyone that you can't be tight when training no-gi? As a matter of fact, people should spend some time grappling in only shorts, to feel how grappling is late in an mma match when both guys are really sweaty. (so called zero friction grappling, which I just made up). I think that may even be more important than to RAISE the friction by Gi:s, rashguards and gi pants.

I saw no Improvement in Diego's grappling game when ha had spent a lot of time training with the gi. He just seemed shocked that the slipperyness made his guard useless against Jon Fitch.

But this is basically all I have to say on the matter, so I'm gonna stop here. Just curiosity: What MA do you do? You seem like you are really knowledgable and you mentioned something about your dojo? Is it Judo or BJJ?
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Old 02-17-2009, 12:28 AM   #25 (permalink)
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First of all: I respect your oppinion and I am aware that history kind of speaks against what I say. Also, I see the facet that makes the Gi fun, but for me the negative factors (too many handles, you sweat your guts out, you have to straighten it out all the time) outweighed the positive ones for me. But seriously, it might be even less than 1% of the black belt level gyms that are mainly no-gi. I still can't think of anyone else than eddie bravo (and I think Leo Viera is pretty No-gi based, don't know however)

And the marathon thing is the same as training for no-gi with a gi IMO whatever the sport. If you are competing no-gi, train no- gi and of course vice versa. And do you really think Saku's Judo training at school with the gi was what made him so good? The gi is not magical you know... It's not like everyone who touches it becomes better authomatically. He would have boecome equally well if he had trained No-gi. The Gi actually allows for more space, and under and overhooks are completely overlooked. As for the basics thing: I was pretty new to grappling back then, so I might have exaggerated how sloppy I became. As of now I am tighter than ever, and it is mostly thanks to my no-gi training.

And for your no-gi game, the gi doesn what? Teach tightness? If anything, that's what the No-gi game teaches. Who told anyone that you can't be tight when training no-gi? As a matter of fact, people should spend some time grappling in only shorts, to feel how grappling is late in an mma match when both guys are really sweaty. (so called zero friction grappling, which I just made up). I think that may even be more important than to RAISE the friction by Gi:s, rashguards and gi pants.

I saw no Improvement in Diego's grappling game when ha had spent a lot of time training with the gi. He just seemed shocked that the slipperyness made his guard useless against Jon Fitch.

But this is basically all I have to say on the matter, so I'm gonna stop here. Just curiosity: What MA do you do? You seem like you are really knowledgable and you mentioned something about your dojo? Is it Judo or BJJ?
negative factors, to many handles, sweat my guts out, and straighten it out all the time. what i have to say about that is the handles i give away helps my defence that helps my grip fighting skills & that happends to be one of the most important parts of grappling gi or nogi so i look at the handles or forced grip fighting as a plus. no gi or gi i sweat my guts out, if i don't i am dehydrated. straightening my gi out is the last thing on my mind, just like in a tourny or a fight in the street i will not try to tuck my shirt in while it is happening. straightening the gi is done before or after the match unless other wise told. leo viera started off in judo, with a gi.

the marathon quote was used to try to show the comment you made is stupid, i do both gi and nogi, but when the nogi tourny is coming up and i am preping nogi i would shed the gi. i never said the gi was magical that is like comparing yourself to a pro grappler after a couple years in the game, this does not happen over night. and you are quite mistaken if you belive the gi allows you to have more space, space is space gi or nogi, if you give me the space he will beable to recover guard. under and over hooks are not completly over looked, it is some cases it is not as useful in application with the gi, such as collar tie it is still used in the gi world but you can get a high lapel grip which give more strength, but it all depends on the case. grips are more indepth while wearing the gi like said earlier.

tightness is important in both nogi and gi. i never said you can't be tight in nogi. i said the escapes i do can be due to sweat not due to technique.

one guy messes up and we'll blame it on his gi workouts. diego din't he start out as a nogi guy, as a wrestler?

i have a judo base, i also compete in bjj.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:09 AM   #26 (permalink)
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youre all making really important points. thanks for all your answers.
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Old 02-24-2009, 05:05 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Which is more effective style of BJJ?
Effective for what?

On the street, gi grappling is way more effective (I can grab a guys jeans for a toreando, and I have no problem taking my belt off and strangling him with it). If he's wearing a jacket, then you even have all of the gi chokes at your disposal. Those weapons you develop in gi grappling are great on the street.

For MMA and sportfighting, is pretty obvious that no gi is the way to go. If you're not going to have the collar to grab onto, then don't waste your time training collar chokes. It's still nice to slow down the pace, as gi grappling does, so that you can work technique, but no gi simulates the scrambles that are much more common in MMA.
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:26 PM   #28 (permalink)
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ironman i took the question as from, one that is about to begin. for a foundation in bjj should it be, gi or nogi? you can ask eduardo next time your back over here, or we can go down the list of adcc medalist and count the gi based players vs the nogi based players.
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:49 PM   #29 (permalink)
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ironman i took the question as from, one that is about to begin. for a foundation in bjj should it be, gi or nogi? you can ask eduardo next time your back over here, or we can go down the list of adcc medalist and count the gi based players vs the nogi based players.
Eduardo is a firm believers in the importance of the gi game. That's how he's always trained, but he only really cares about gi competition anyway.

Hmmm... just tracking the list from when I started following it in 2003, almost all of the guys had gi background.

2003: Viera, Marcelinho, Einemo, Saulo and Cruz all had gi backgrounds. Dean Lister was a no gi grappler, but he had some gi training too. He's the closest there was to a no gi grappler.

2005: Viera, Marcelinho, Roger (in two divisions) and Jacare all had gi backgrounds. Monson does too, but, again, he's the closest we get to a really no gi grappler.

2007: Yahya, Marcelinho, Maia, Xande and Werdum are all gi grapplers. I would never simplify Drysdale's career by calling him a "no gi" grappler. So that's a sweep for gi based guys, as far as I'm concerned.

Also, the "no gi" guys are, generally speaking, Americans. They're guys who come from wrestling. These guys are plentiful at competitions, but they generally get beat pretty badly. (guys like Matt Lindland, who I like, never do that well at ADCC)

So, I think it's pretty onesided from that standpoint. On the other hand, though, that's pure grappling, and the guys who are the best pure grappling are BJJ guys, and most BJJ starts with the gi on. (as it should, in my opinion, because it forces focus on the fundamentals, especially in the guard)
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:41 PM   #30 (permalink)
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i had to use eduardo as an example because i know your lineage, will go down for pan ams this year?
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