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Old 12-10-2006, 12:12 AM   #11 (permalink)
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My qualification to judge the lock comes not as a practitioner of Daito Ryu Jujitsu and Aikijujitsu forms (which are pretty much straight grappling), it comes as someone who has been in alot of armlocks from men who know alot more about classical jiu-jitsu than I do. What I learned from feeling those techniques makes it very clear that these ones are being done badly, at least according to most schools of traditional japanese thought (which is what they are saying it is).

I am not saying that the combat techniques are uneffective in the context of whatever Ryu they may be from (and I am sure that the master who instructed this has credentials), but this is simply not the style of the many forms of classical jujitsu I have encountered, and that includes styles that aren't mine.
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Old 12-10-2006, 03:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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submission grappling is more effective in my opinion as it uses the best techniqeu's from many styles and you can use a variety of techniqeus from all different styles that you may be better at than relying purely on classic bjj.

if you know some of the best wrestling and judo takedowns you can choose the takedown from a variety of sytles that is most effective for you where as if you rely purely on bjj you dont really have that option. In sub grappling you are more able to custimize your style to whats fits you best as a grappler.
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Old 12-10-2006, 04:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JawShattera
yes i agree you must add boxing, judo and muay thai to complete the unstoppable art that is:

brazilian bo-judo thai
no need wrestling, not judo.

boxzilian wrest-thai
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Old 12-10-2006, 05:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
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While wrestling may be quicker and easier to learn, there are things that you can do with high level Judo that will decimate a good wrestler. Karo's throws that lands guys on their necks are amazing, especially when you look at how small and physical un-incredible his is. (Not to say that he's not strong, but he's not compared to alot of wrestlers)

In order to do real damage with a wrestling slam you have to be as strong compared to the rest of your weight class as Randleman, Hughes or Sherk. There's too much emphasis on brute force for it to be really good without some kind of other style backing it.

Why are you limiting yourself to the "good" takedowns and throws? There are situations I have been in where I've had to use something like a reverse gi-choke-hip throw, which is something that would definitely make the cut on that list, but because of the situation and the way my opponent reacted to the throw I would normally use I had to try it. My opinion:

Learn as much as you can, because if you know a little bit of everything, your prepared for anything.
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Old 12-11-2006, 06:55 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by IronMan
While wrestling may be quicker and easier to learn, there are things that you can do with high level Judo that will decimate a good wrestler. Karo's throws that lands guys on their necks are amazing, especially when you look at how small and physical un-incredible his is. (Not to say that he's not strong, but he's not compared to alot of wrestlers)

In order to do real damage with a wrestling slam you have to be as strong compared to the rest of your weight class as Randleman, Hughes or Sherk. There's too much emphasis on brute force for it to be really good without some kind of other style backing it.

Why are you limiting yourself to the "good" takedowns and throws? There are situations I have been in where I've had to use something like a reverse gi-choke-hip throw, which is something that would definitely make the cut on that list, but because of the situation and the way my opponent reacted to the throw I would normally use I had to try it. My opinion:

Learn as much as you can, because if you know a little bit of everything, your prepared for anything.
true, judo is probably more about leverage. and attacking your opponents top half limbs, i think...and wrestling is both leg attacks and upper body and can be more easily transferred to mma because nothing to grab onto and don't have to change the attack....and you can throw anyone or pick anyone up by getting your hips lower. although power does come into play....and karo is not by any means weak...so a little of judo and wrestling is good...but wrestling if you can only have one
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Old 12-27-2006, 01:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by doublelegtakedown
no need wrestling, not judo.

boxzilian wrest-thai
Wrestling is a great place to start. It teaches many basics needed for more complex techniques that styles like Judo and BJJ employ.
It also teaches some bad habits that have to be "unlearned" when becoming an MMA practitioner. Things like leaving your head out for a guilottine and extending arms to far for leaverage.
All in all though it's a great teacher of balance and body position. When I was young I trained at a summer wrestling camp and the coaches sometimes blindfolded us before we sparred. This was a great exercise in awareness.

Last edited by LV 2 H8 U : 12-27-2006 at 01:40 PM.
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