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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-09-2009, 02:50 AM Thread Starter
Zei
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Armbar from guard?

I'm a beginner Jiu Jitsu practitioner, and I have a question. Well, I was going over the basic arm bar from the guard with my instructor, cause I wanted to know if I was learning it right, and as I was doing it to him, over and over, he found a way to get out of it. Which is basically, when I unhook my guard to put my left leg against his hip and swivel to get my leg over, he yanks his arm underneath my leg (I would say he overpowers me because he weighs like... 100 more than I do, but in any case...) and out. Well, I got to thinking about a way to avoid that and I came up with something that i've yet to try, but would like feedback.

Mmkay, here we go:

Well, first they'd get in your guard and you would grab their right (your left) wrist with your left arm, and reach across and grab the outside of their upper arm (tricep?). After that you would pull that arm across your chest towards your right shoulder. Now, when you do this, you would unhook your guard and place your right leg as high up on the inside of them as you can (like their stomach, or chest areas. You MUST be able to place your foot flat, or close to flat, on them, so you might need to be really flexible to do it good). Once here, you would kick them over with your right leg and swing your left leg around their head and go for the armbar.

Does this sound plausible at all? I'm going to try it anyways, but I want other's opinions and questions to see if it's a good though or not.

Any ways on avoiding him getting his arm through as well would be helpful!
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-09-2009, 11:47 AM
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Changing your angle is the most important part of the move IMO you dont need mad flexibility when your in the correct position.

When you un hook your guard place your left foot on his hip, use this to move your body. You want to be able to look into his ear then you'll know the angle is right,its kinda hard to explain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfDuMHyaO34
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-09-2009, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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I know all of that. When I placed my foot on his hip, I would swivel my body on the mat so I could get my right leg across his shoulder blades, and then, soon after, my left leg across his neck.

But that never helped my dilemma. He still managed to get his arm through, no matter what I did. Although, it did put me in position for a shoulder lock, but I don't think i'd be able to do the shoulder lock while grappling; I could barely do it in practice.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-09-2009, 07:33 PM
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I would say you will get passed everytime you try to do your technique. If you attempt to put your foot on their chest, you will get passed.

Second, you need more practice. Simple as that. And if you cant do the shoulder lock (omaplata?), then you need more practice.

Seems like your trying to submit your instructor and your a noob white belt, slow down and take it a step at a time.

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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-09-2009, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by knucks3man View Post
I would say you will get passed everytime you try to do your technique. If you attempt to put your foot on their chest, you will get passed.
This is the answer I was looking for. I just wanted to know. I'm still going to try it slowly on a practice partner, but it definitely has loopholes that would need advising.

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Second, you need more practice. Simple as that. And if you cant do the shoulder lock (omaplata?), then you need more practice.
It wasn't the omoaplata. It was something else, and yes, I know I need more practice.

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Seems like your trying to submit your instructor and your a noob white belt, slow down and take it a step at a time.
Nope. He asked me to do it on him over and over again, and that's what I did. I wasn't trying to submit him at all, he just asked me to.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-09-2009, 10:54 PM
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Well did you ask HIM why or how he was able to get his arm out? If you did what did he say?

Best thing to do is to ask the person who keeps gettin out how they do it, and work with them to break it down and try to stop it.


and well like everyone else said just keep practicing.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-09-2009, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CFT_Ian View Post
Well did you ask HIM why or how he was able to get his arm out? If you did what did he say?

Best thing to do is to ask the person who keeps gettin out how they do it, and work with them to break it down and try to stop it.


and well like everyone else said just keep practicing.
I did ask him. Basically, he just yanked his arm from out of my grip (hence the "possibly overpowering me" comment) and then underneath my leg when I put my foot on his hip to swivel. This puts me in a position that's like a triangle on his shoulder/upper arm if I keep trying for the armbar, and i'm pretty sure there's a couple things I could do from there, but I either don't know them or won't be proficient enough to use them effectively yet.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Zei View Post
Well, first they'd get in your guard and you would grab their right (your left) wrist with your left arm, and reach across and grab the outside of their upper arm (tricep?).
You skipped a step.

Break the posture first.

Whenever you're attacking from the guard, you have to break your opponent's posture. It's really easy to escape any submission attempt it your postured up correctly, because your elbows are in tight and your neck is out of the way.

Break your opponent down first. Work the guard nice and high, and then start to attack the arm.

This, I'd imagine, is enough to make it very, very easy for your instructor to escape. However, I'll break down a few more mistakes you seem to be making.

Also, and this is a stylistic thing, I like to attack the left tricept with my left hand, the right tricept with my right hand. It makes it very easy to transition to a lot more submissions that way depending on how they defend the armbar, but I'll get into that some other time.


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After that you would pull that arm across your chest towards your right shoulder.
Not really necessary to pull the arm that far.

If you break your opponent down and work your guard high (ideally into his armpits), you really only need the arm to be a foot to 18 inches above your hips, which means, basically, having the elbow in your sternum.

If you can get the elbow that high, great. But it's a lot of effort for very little additional control.


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Now, when you do this, you would unhook your guard and place your right leg as high up on the inside of them as you can (like their stomach, or chest areas.
OK. This is where your technique goes totally off the rails, so I'm going to stop quoting your post. Any armbar that demands flexibility sounds like a bizarre attack to me. I'm a very flexible guy, but the armbar from the guard requires no flexibility, especially if you have control of their posture. All of the angles that your legs are working are perfectly natural. It's not a gogoplata.

Also, you use the word "swing." Anytime you use the word "swing" to describe something you're doing in a grappling technique, chances are pretty good you're doing it wrong.

If you're attacking their right arm (which is how you started this technique), take your left foot and step in their right hip (same side as the arm you're attacking) and use this point of leverage to turn your body at a 90 degree angle, so that you are pulling the arm across their body towards their left shoulder.

Keep their arm tight against your chest and slide your right leg up into their armpit as you turn.

If you make the turn correctly, it should be very is to slip the leg over the head, pinch the knees together and finish the armbar.

Remember that the whole time you're doing this technique, you have to maintain control of the tricept.



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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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That's the answer i've been looking for! One that completely picks apart everything i've said. Thank you ;]

Well, I don't actually mean pull their arm to the opposite shoulder, just in the direction of. I understand that that would be a lot of wasted energy to get it that far, and I would never attempt to get it that far.



And thank you for that post :] That cleared up alot of stuff i've been thinking about, and I think I know where I went wrong with the armbar from guard.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zei View Post
And thank you for that post :] That cleared up alot of stuff i've been thinking about, and I think I know where I went wrong with the armbar from guard.
No worries, man.

If you have more basics questions, surf through the "Back to Basics" thread and, in you can't find it, post a request and I'll get to it pretty quickly.



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