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-   -   How do you do a double leg takedown? (http://www.mmaforum.com/grappling-technique/86319-how-do-you-do-double-leg-takedown.html)

Kin 01-11-2011 12:36 AM

How do you do a double leg takedown?
 
No, this is not me asking for instructions on how to shoot a double. This is me asking how YOU, yourself, shoot doubles and why you do it that way.

The setup

Do you shoot off of a jab? An overhand? An inside leg kick? Do you tie up first?

The Shot

Do you drop a knee? Do you stay on your feet? Do you duck your head, close your eyes, and charge forward with your arms outstretched?

The Finish

Do you turn the corner and end up in side control? Do you drive through into guard? Do you pop up and end up standing over his open guard? Do you trip a leg and end up in half guard? If you drop a knee on your shot, do you finish from kneeling or do you come back to your feet for the finish?

Do you use a different setup/shot/finish for MMA than for grappling or the same thing either way? And most importantly, WHY do you do it that way? "I was taught that way" is fine, but if you notice any advantages or disadvantages of that method, let's discuss them.

I'm so tired of "how do I do this/what style should i take" threads. This is the technique discussion subforum, so let's actually have some real discussion about technique!

EDIT: Yes, obviously circumstance dictates your technique and in competition, I've done almost every variation I've listed and I'm sure there are others I haven't touched upon. I'm asking what your go-to is.

Kin 01-11-2011 12:50 AM

To get this rolling...

My go-to setup is off of the jab or head-touch. I'm a one trick pony and that's pretty much all I've got in the setup department. Sadly.

When I shoot, I almost always drop a knee. I like the extra distance I get and I find it easier to penetrate when I do it this way.

For the finish, I always strive to dig my head against the side of my opponent's body and swing his legs out from under him so I end up in side control. I tend to come up to standing for the finish so I can keep driving by taking as many additional steps as needed. I've been trying to work my finish from the knees simply because I think it looks way cooler, but I haven't had much success.

Interestingly enough, my BJJ coach insists that I shouldn't finish my takedown that way. He tells me not to put my head to the side, but to keep it in front and to drive forward so that I end up standing over my opponent's open guard. Obviously this is to reduce the risk of getting guillotined, but I'm not very good (read: terrible) at that variation yet. And I, personally, dislike it. I do see his reasoning, though.

I have pretty much the same shot for grappling and MMA... largely because I learned how to wrestle through my MMA gym so I know it best in that context. And I'm a strong believer of dropping the knee because in a panick, I've found that trying to shoot while you're still on your feet can sometimes devolve into charging while bent at the waist with your arms outstretched. But maybe that's just 'cause I'm not a very good wrestler. =P

BearInTheClinch 01-11-2011 03:51 AM

my Wrestling honestly (at this point at least) is a lot better from the Clinch or on the Ground then it is from the Outside. But I will attempt to answer anyway, tho this is by no means a brilliant explination of Double Leg options I assure you.

My answer is also somewhat Generic but I'll try to give multiple examples to make it better then "A little of all of that"

Basically it depends on my opponent (assuming I know something about him)

The Set Up

Generally I Shoot for a Double Leg to counter someone rushing me, similar to Rashad Evans (only I'm not as smooth). Now in general my Striking involves pressuring the other person but if I find a superior Striker and they go to come forward with punches or leaning too far forward that's when I'll go for my Double, to get a superior Striker to the Ground.
Were I ever to look for it Offensivly like I was having a close fight with another guy who I felt had a weaker ground game but he didn't want to pressure me in the standup I'd set it up with punches or low kicks. I am not quick enough (at my current weight at least) to shoot off of my own leg kick, but I'd low kick to soften the legs up and make them a little slower to react then Shoot off of a Jab more then likely. Probubly not an opening Jab but after getting them expecting something up top after the Jab, like Jab Cross....Jab Cross....Jab Shoot.

The Shot


Again I set this up based on my opponent, I'm a 5'10 Heavyweight so I can wind up against an opponent right around my height all the way up to someone a full foot taller. So It depends on his height and stance, if dropping to my knee (or both) will give me a bit better leverage then I'll do that.

The Finish

As with all things I suit this to my opponent. If I can have it any way I want it, I'll slide thier legs aside and get Cross Body. For one thing they land harder, and for another Cross Body is my dominant ground control. However, in general it depends because I find a lot of people train very hard on how to escape CrossBody, particularly if I am fighting a Wrestler (tho I likely did not shoot on a Wrestler, but I digress) I'd rather actually be in the Guard of an opponent who's base is Wrestling cus I will be able to pin him more effectivly there. Against someone with a BJJ base, I'd rather have Cross Body on him so that I can disrupt his gameplan by striking him in the face.
So basically how I finish it depends on the Ground base of my opponent. BJJ I turn him to get Cross Body, Wrestling I like to be in his Guard.

We should do a similar thread about Clinch TakeDowns and prefered Clinches.

UFC_OWNS 01-11-2011 04:16 AM

ill make this short and sweet, if i shoot for a double leg i set up with a combo then shoot, if he ain't going down i put him against the cage switch to one leg and pull him back out and he'll go down one way or the other. i prefer the clinch game though rather than double legs, slams are way cooler.

BearInTheClinch 01-11-2011 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UFC_OWNS (Post 1339727)
ill make this short and sweet, if i shoot for a double leg i set up with a combo then shoot, if he ain't going down i put him against the cage switch to one leg and pull him back out and he'll go down one way or the other. i prefer the clinch game though rather than double legs, slams are way cooler.

I like this guy...
:thumb02:

Kin 01-11-2011 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BearInTheClinch (Post 1339718)
my Wrestling honestly (at this point at least) is a lot better from the Clinch or on the Ground then it is from the Outside. But I will attempt to answer anyway, tho this is by no means a brilliant explination of Double Leg options I assure you.

My answer is also somewhat Generic but I'll try to give multiple examples to make it better then "A little of all of that"

Basically it depends on my opponent (assuming I know something about him)

The Set Up

Generally I Shoot for a Double Leg to counter someone rushing me, similar to Rashad Evans (only I'm not as smooth). Now in general my Striking involves pressuring the other person but if I find a superior Striker and they go to come forward with punches or leaning too far forward that's when I'll go for my Double, to get a superior Striker to the Ground.
Were I ever to look for it Offensivly like I was having a close fight with another guy who I felt had a weaker ground game but he didn't want to pressure me in the standup I'd set it up with punches or low kicks. I am not quick enough (at my current weight at least) to shoot off of my own leg kick, but I'd low kick to soften the legs up and make them a little slower to react then Shoot off of a Jab more then likely. Probubly not an opening Jab but after getting them expecting something up top after the Jab, like Jab Cross....Jab Cross....Jab Shoot.

The Shot


Again I set this up based on my opponent, I'm a 5'10 Heavyweight so I can wind up against an opponent right around my height all the way up to someone a full foot taller. So It depends on his height and stance, if dropping to my knee (or both) will give me a bit better leverage then I'll do that.

The Finish

As with all things I suit this to my opponent. If I can have it any way I want it, I'll slide thier legs aside and get Cross Body. For one thing they land harder, and for another Cross Body is my dominant ground control. However, in general it depends because I find a lot of people train very hard on how to escape CrossBody, particularly if I am fighting a Wrestler (tho I likely did not shoot on a Wrestler, but I digress) I'd rather actually be in the Guard of an opponent who's base is Wrestling cus I will be able to pin him more effectivly there. Against someone with a BJJ base, I'd rather have Cross Body on him so that I can disrupt his gameplan by striking him in the face.
So basically how I finish it depends on the Ground base of my opponent. BJJ I turn him to get Cross Body, Wrestling I like to be in his Guard.

We should do a similar thread about Clinch TakeDowns and prefered Clinches.

I wish I were better at taking guys down when they're coming at me. I find that one pretty tough, but if you've got the timing for it, it's SOOO hard to stop. Also, I never thought to try to take a wrestler into his guard as opposed to side control. That makes perfect sense, since it'd be harder for him to scramble from there. That's something I'll be taking away from this...

Oh and you should totally make a clinch takedown thread. I'm not very good in the clinch so I wouldn't know what aspects of it to dissect and discuss.

Intermission 01-11-2011 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kin (Post 1339914)
I wish I were better at taking guys down when they're coming at me. I find that one pretty tough, but if you've got the timing for it, it's SOOO hard to stop. Also, I never thought to try to take a wrestler into his guard as opposed to side control. That makes perfect sense, since it'd be harder for him to scramble from there. That's something I'll be taking away from this...

Oh and you should totally make a clinch takedown thread. I'm not very good in the clinch so I wouldn't know what aspects of it to dissect and discuss.

I find wrestlers aren't great in half guard either. You have your weight on their leg and from there you can attempt to do damage. Ovbiously side is the worst to have a wrestler in because chances are they will scramble and get up.

Kin 01-11-2011 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intermission (Post 1339921)
I find wrestlers aren't great in half guard either. You have your weight on their leg and from there you can attempt to do damage. Ovbiously side is the worst to have a wrestler in because chances are they will scramble and get up.

For better or worse, I always grapple as if I'm being scored by the NAGA point system, so I'm always looking to get side control as soon as possible, then get mount, and possibly the back. So being too stubborn and dumb to learn from my mistakes, I often lose control of wrestlers scrambling out from under my side control. =P

UFC_OWNS 01-11-2011 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kin (Post 1339929)
For better or worse, I always grapple as if I'm being scored by the NAGA point system, so I'm always looking to get side control as soon as possible, then get mount, and possibly the back. So being too stubborn and dumb to learn from my mistakes, I often lose control of wrestlers scrambling out from under my side control. =P

better, if you get double underhooks you have a 9/10 chance of taking them down no question especially if its high double unders.

TraMaI 01-11-2011 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kin (Post 1339650)
No, this is not me asking for instructions on how to shoot a double. This is me asking how YOU, yourself, shoot doubles and why you do it that way.

The setup

Do you shoot off of a jab? An overhand? An inside leg kick? Do you tie up first?

The Shot

Do you drop a knee? Do you stay on your feet? Do you duck your head, close your eyes, and charge forward with your arms outstretched?

The Finish

Do you turn the corner and end up in side control? Do you drive through into guard? Do you pop up and end up standing over his open guard? Do you trip a leg and end up in half guard? If you drop a knee on your shot, do you finish from kneeling or do you come back to your feet for the finish?

Do you use a different setup/shot/finish for MMA than for grappling or the same thing either way? And most importantly, WHY do you do it that way? "I was taught that way" is fine, but if you notice any advantages or disadvantages of that method, let's discuss them.

I'm so tired of "how do I do this/what style should i take" threads. This is the technique discussion subforum, so let's actually have some real discussion about technique!

EDIT: Yes, obviously circumstance dictates your technique and in competition, I've done almost every variation I've listed and I'm sure there are others I haven't touched upon. I'm asking what your go-to is.

As for the last part (Circumstance dictates technique), I'm just going to go with my "Bread and Butter Double Leg".

The set-up:
Jabs, possibly an overhand feint or a teep. Something to get them either thinking high or moving off balance.

The Shot:
In on one knee, head belly button level, face looking to the side with my cheek to the inside of their hip (not on the side of their body, to the left or right of their center). If I'm shooting to my left (usually), wrap my right arm behind his knee, clinch with my other hand about thigh level.

The Finish:
Pull left with my arms, push right with my head while moving semi circular to my left and driving forward, both knees coming off the ground.(I believe that would be called "turning the corner" but I'm unsure, my wrestling is balls) Hopefully end up in side control or at the very least half guard. Sometime I'll do sort of a hybrid Outside trip/double leg, too. If I get deep enough inside and knee is planted close to him, I'll use a trip to assist pulling him off balance with my arms.

Pros/Cons:
+ Takes less energy than a "Driving" double leg as it's more based off of balance/counter balance.

+ Not as succeptible to being "Stuffed" and ending up in turtle position or with a guy on your back and your face on the floor because your knee is planted and your other foot remains closer to your center of gravity, it's much easier to just stand back up after he sprawls.

+ Can't get kneed once you're knee is down

+ Better ending position

- Considerably more complicated that the "Driving Double" due to the different stages or the takedown.

- You HAVE to be quick as the shot is lower that normal, it's easier to dodge or counter with a knee before your knee hits the floor.

- Not as much forward momentum as driving doubles.

- Must be timed and executed well in order to pull it off cleanly. If you miss you can't just keep going with it like a power/driving double, you have to back out and try again.


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