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-   -   Finishing Off The Guillotine: Getting the other hand in (http://www.mmaforum.com/grappling-technique/86752-finishing-off-guillotine-getting-other-hand.html)

mattysen 01-25-2011 12:04 AM

Finishing Off The Guillotine: Getting the other hand in
 
Heya, I haven't been doing MMA for a very long time but so far I've been able to catch some good fighters in a really tight Guillotine in about every training session for a week or something. And they've said "wow I thought I was gone when you used that Guillotine". But I haven't been able to tap anyone out yet using it. The main problems being that:
  • I cant get my other arm in to finish since they have their shoulder over my gripping arm
  • Or they move to mount where I still have a strong grip on them but just cant finish

I reckon If I start nailing this Guillotine I'll start winning most of my rolls. Any suggestions?

BearInTheClinch 01-26-2011 12:26 AM

How are they getting out of your Guard to Mount you? I've seen people get out of Guard or Half Guard into Side Control but never Full Mount. Actually them moving thier hips forward like that seems like it would put them in a tighter choke. I mean I know you'd lose the ability to contorl them with your hips but thier torso would be like folding in half...I'm having trouble picturing this.

As to the other have you been experimenting with Arm in Guillotines?

IronMan 01-26-2011 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattysen (Post 1347225)
Heya, I haven't been doing MMA for a very long time but so far I've been able to catch some good fighters in a really tight Guillotine in about every training session for a week or something. And they've said "wow I thought I was gone when you used that Guillotine". But I haven't been able to tap anyone out yet using it. The main problems being that:
  • I cant get my other arm in to finish since they have their shoulder over my gripping arm

If you can't get your arm in, and you need that position to finish the guillotine, then you are really going to have to work at the actual set up for the position more. Realistically, most of the problems with the guillotine come from people who don't think about setting it up soon enough. As you're setting the position up, make sure that you have both arms in the position where you can execute the technique.

I see a lot of guys go for the guillotine when they have the over-under position and they can't finish it because the hand that was the over hook can't get around to lock the choke in. It's a very, very common problem, and it has a pretty simple solution: make sure that (at least as a beginner) the way that you're setting up the guillotine is going to keep both of your arms in a position where you can sink in that grip.

There are ways to finish the guillotine without the second hand at all, but those require a lot of technical knowledge, especially when it comes to managing your guard, and the way that you position your legs to angle the choke properly (butterfly guard vs. closed guard vs. half guard, etc.) so while I think it might be helpful to look at what guys like Marcelo Garcia and (particularly) Chris Brennan are doing, be aware that those things take a lot of time to learn.

If you are interested in checking some of that stuff out, I'm happy to post it, but I wanted to include the disclaimer, as well as the basics advice, which I think you'll find more relevant.


Quote:

  • Or they move to mount where I still have a strong grip on them but just cant finish

I reckon If I start nailing this Guillotine I'll start winning most of my rolls. Any suggestions?
This is a really common problem for guys who start the guillotine from a position other than closed guard, and then try to transition to the closed guard, because if the closed guard isn't locked up properly (and it's more challenging to lock it up properly when you're angled differently and focussed on the guillotine) it is much easier to pass.

What I would focus on is getting your guard high (so that your thighs are in the ribs or even the armpits, as opposed to around your opponent's hips or thighs) and locking it up. This is very, very important when it comes to finishing from the closed guard. If you get the closed guard and you lock it down with a tight guillotine, it will dramatically increase your ability to finish the choke.

If you're trying to do guillotines from the half-guard, where this also happens some of the time, my best advice to you is simply: stop doing guillotines from the half-guard.

They rarely, rarely work for beginners. I know that it became very popular after people saw Jason MacDonald do it, but it is a position that either requires very long legs or a very good awareness of how you're positioning your upper body relative to your hips to get the appropriate torque on the neck to finish the choke.

EDIT: Relavate, in repping me for this post, asked where I train. I started training at Rocha BJJ in Oakland, California, under Eduardo Rocha (4th Degree Blackbelt, Royler Gracie) and Stephen Goyne (Blackbelt, Eduardo Rocha) but I've recently started training with Pacific Martial Arts in Fresno. Both are amazing camps, and neither should be held accountable for whatever mistakes I might make.

CutterKick 01-26-2011 05:28 PM

My biggest advice would be to try and lock one of his arms. It restricts movement and can still be kept in the move to avoid struggling.
Get a body triangle-like guard at your opponents hips. Keep your knees in tight to his hips, this should make it harder to break guard.
Try to trap one arm at the bicep under your armpit. Grab his head with your other and press it under your other armpit. Try to have near the back of his neck at your armpit.
Gable-grip both hands together firmly. The gable grip makes it harder to break with his remaining hand.
Next, move your body triangle as high as you can go. Hold your legs tight. Now try to get your legs and necks as far away apart as possible.
I tried to break this down as simply as I could. Honestly, your club should be teaching you this.

FGr1p63 02-07-2011 10:19 AM

A video speaks a thousand words so i'll just post this link. It's about finishing the guillotine. hope this helps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5qQnP-ZtBU


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