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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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Hello folks, I'm 35 and back to training after a long hiatus. Yes, I like kung fu, is that too daring to say on a MMA forum lol I've always been interested in flexibility and kicks, so I can do splits and high kicks. The truth is, I want to learn how to fight, can I do it without picking up random fights? I wonder if there's a less risky approach. Classes are out of my reach since I live in the middle of nowhere. How's a routine for someone who is a fighter as opposed to someone who trains modern martial arts?
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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 07:06 PM
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You can do some stuff, but you can't learn to fight without being trained. I recently talked to some guy who told me he's doing MMA. I'm planning on picking up a class in the area so I asked him which one in the off chance he'd be at the one I'm going to. He replied "Oh, I'm just training in my shed right now". The look on my face must have been pretty damn evident.

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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 07:07 PM
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Welcome to the forum Dan
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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danfpeterson View Post
Hello folks, I'm 35 and back to training after a long hiatus. Yes, I like kung fu, is that too daring to say on a MMA forum lol I've always been interested in flexibility and kicks, so I can do splits and high kicks. The truth is, I want to learn how to fight, can I do it without picking up random fights? I wonder if there's a less risky approach. Classes are out of my reach since I live in the middle of nowhere. How's a routine for someone who is a fighter as opposed to someone who trains modern martial arts?
I kind of think that training to fight is a full time job.

Its something that might mainly be for people who truly love it or who can make a living doing it.

Some martial arts instructors sell the idea that a person can have a complete & reliable self defense system if they train 2-4 hours a week every week.

That can be dangerous. A certain amount of athleticism, cardio and physical strength is a requirement for a person being effective in the martial arts imo. I think being able to bench press close to 2x their own body weight is something like a bare minimum of athleticism a person needs to train effectively. But to really be effective they would need a decently strong base and their strength in wrestling and grappling would need to be better than their bench pressing.

Without that bare minimum of athleticism, its pointless for a lot of people to bother training martial arts. They won't have the physical strength required for a lot of things.

I tend to think if someone is training MMA or kung fu or whatever they need to do a bare minimum of cardio and strength training along with whatever they're doing. Eating healthy and having good lifestyle habits, not doing drugs, not overindulging in alcohol and things like that might also be bare minimums.

One thing MMA proved is pokes to the eye and strikes to the groin are extremely effective. Those two techniques, as dirty as they may be have to be the two most effective techniques to come out of kung fu and traditional self defense systems. Whatever kung fu or martial arts you're training, you probably want to train eye pokes and strikes to the groin and have them as go to's in life or death situations. Actually I'm not sure on that, maybe it would be better to leave that stuff alone. Not sure what the consensus is. I have to think that even a black belt in brazilian jiu jitsu could be outgrappled by a white belt grabbing them by the balls and squeezing really hard. That's one thing about martial arts, they're built around having rules and are effective as long as the rules are followed. The second rules get thrown out the window a lot of things can change.

Other than that if you're training yourself, a lot of professional fighters had their humble beginnings looking for tutorials on youtube. There are some reputable people who release stuff. Although its very easy to get little things that are important wrong and there are huge benefits to having someone train you who can make sure you're doing things right.


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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trix View Post
I kind of think that training to fight is a full time job.

Its something that might mainly be for people who truly love it or who can make a living doing it.

Some martial arts instructors sell the idea that a person can have a complete & reliable self defense system if they train 2-4 hours a week every week.

That can be dangerous. A certain amount of athleticism, cardio and physical strength is a requirement for a person being effective in the martial arts imo. I think being able to bench press close to 2x their own body weight is something like a bare minimum of athleticism a person needs to train effectively. But to really be effective they would need a decently strong base and their strength in wrestling and grappling would need to be better than their bench pressing.

Without that bare minimum of athleticism, its pointless for a lot of people to bother training martial arts. They won't have the physical strength required for a lot of things.

I tend to think if someone is training MMA or kung fu or whatever they need to do a bare minimum of cardio and strength training along with whatever they're doing. Eating healthy and having good lifestyle habits, not doing drugs, not overindulging in alcohol and things like that might also be bare minimums.

One thing MMA proved is pokes to the eye and strikes to the groin are extremely effective. Those two techniques, as dirty as they may be have to be the two most effective techniques to come out of kung fu and traditional self defense systems. Whatever kung fu or martial arts you're training, you probably want to train eye pokes and strikes to the groin and have them as go to's in life or death situations. Actually I'm not sure on that, maybe it would be better to leave that stuff alone. Not sure what the consensus is. I have to think that even a black belt in brazilian jiu jitsu could be outgrappled by a white belt grabbing them by the balls and squeezing really hard. That's one thing about martial arts, they're built around having rules and are effective as long as the rules are followed. The second rules get thrown out the window a lot of things can change.

Other than that if you're training yourself, a lot of professional fighters had their humble beginnings looking for tutorials on youtube. There are some reputable people who release stuff. Although its very easy to get little things that are important wrong and there are huge benefits to having someone train you who can make sure you're doing things right.
There's a few things I disagree. Firstly about the couple of hours a week thing. I haven't been training recently but when we're talking "knowing how to fight", no one's saying professionally. I know that I have an advantage (in no way a gimmie) over some random guy who's never trained a day in his life, because I've experienced movements and positions that they haven't. If I fight professionally tomorrow, they kill me, but if I fight outside the nightclub I legitimately would have the capacity to defend myself against several people (and that's not a theory, not like trying to be a hard guy as anyone who knows their shit smashes my face in but no one really knows their shit).

Also, bench pressing is nothing to do with fundamentals. If you can't throw a jab, who cares what you can bench press? That stuff is relevant way down the line. I probably can't bench press 1x my weight but the capacity to knock someone out requires nothing even close to that. If I was to be a professional, yeah sure, but again the guy's not looking to get into UFC here.

"Train eye pokes"...is that really a thing? I'd say you'd struggle to find a martial arts system in existence that suggests extending your fingers towards someone's face. Absolutely, remembering that the eyes and groin are huge weaknesses are definitely things to remember, but an "eye poke" isn't a technique in self defence. This isn't Ric Flair getting out of the corner of the ring stuff. More so than both of those I'd say remembering how fragile fingers are is a huge asset. Breaking a finger requires extremely little force and almost would end an altercation on the spot every time. If someone's grabbing you in a way that exposes their fingers, that's a huge gaping weakness to exploit.

Just some issues I saw. I'm not a trained fighter, I likely would always struggle to compete in any way with a trained fighter, but I don't think it requires professional training and elite level athleticism to be able to defend yourself in the majority of fighting scenarios.
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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydebankBlitz View Post
There's a few things I disagree. Firstly about the couple of hours a week thing. I haven't been training recently but when we're talking "knowing how to fight", no one's saying professionally. I know that I have an advantage (in no way a gimmie) over some random guy who's never trained a day in his life, because I've experienced movements and positions that they haven't. If I fight professionally tomorrow, they kill me, but if I fight outside the nightclub I legitimately would have the capacity to defend myself against several people (and that's not a theory, not like trying to be a hard guy as anyone who knows their shit smashes my face in but no one really knows their shit).

Also, bench pressing is nothing to do with fundamentals. If you can't throw a jab, who cares what you can bench press? That stuff is relevant way down the line. I probably can't bench press 1x my weight but the capacity to knock someone out requires nothing even close to that. If I was to be a professional, yeah sure, but again the guy's not looking to get into UFC here.

"Train eye pokes"...is that really a thing? I'd say you'd struggle to find a martial arts system in existence that suggests extending your fingers towards someone's face. Absolutely, remembering that the eyes and groin are huge weaknesses are definitely things to remember, but an "eye poke" isn't a technique in self defence. This isn't Ric Flair getting out of the corner of the ring stuff. More so than both of those I'd say remembering how fragile fingers are is a huge asset. Breaking a finger requires extremely little force and almost would end an altercation on the spot every time. If someone's grabbing you in a way that exposes their fingers, that's a huge gaping weakness to exploit.

Just some issues I saw. I'm not a trained fighter, I likely would always struggle to compete in any way with a trained fighter, but I don't think it requires professional training and elite level athleticism to be able to defend yourself in the majority of fighting scenarios.
I'll try to explain where I'm coming from on this. In the past I used to do labor work. I'd literally be carrying 100 lb bags of concrete, 70 lb boxes of tiles and do physical labor work all day long. 8-12 hours a day, 7 days a week in worst cases.

One day I tried to see how much I could bench press. I never lifted weights in my life but I could bench press close to 2x my body weight.

Some of my friends trained in martial arts & you know how you play wrestle or play fight with your friends sometimes? I could overpower them easily. Physically they were much, much weaker than I am.

Having just a little bit of athleticism and strength training can make a difference. Its kind of like how when Frank Mir and Brock Lesnar fought the 2nd time. Frank Mir coming from a traditional martial arts background might have had the idea that technique always beats everything, which could have caused him to neglect his strength and conditioning training. Brock Lesnar showed that athleticism can beat technique.

That could be one of the main things a lot of people who practice martial arts don't understand. They can train kickboxing and bjj. But there will still be cases where they'll train stand up, wrestling and grappling where they'll get into a fight with someone who did construction work for the last 20 year and get their butts kicked.

I know it happens. One of the guys I worked with, his brother was training bjj and kickboxing. I think he had a blue belt in bjj. For whatever reason he fought his father who did like a lifetime of construction work, who never trained in martial arts & got KTFO.

Working in a cushy desk job and training martial arts a few times a week could be a bit overrated and unreliable if a person doesn't have a bare minimum of athleticism to back up the things they train.

edit -

As for eye pokes/groin strikes. If for whatever reason a scenario came up where someone had a knife or a bat and wanted to kill me. I might try to poke them in the eye or go for Cheick Congo esque nut strikes. I'm not sure if that's immoral. But in certain situations I think those types of techniques could be put on the table. If someone is seriously threatening you or your family. It might be time to break out the Jon Jones eye pokes. That's how I see things anyway. Maybe I'm wrong about that.


Hard work is the only real PED.

Prospects -- Doo Hoo Choi, Ashlee Evans Smith, Mickey Gall, Sage Northcutt, Thomas Almeida, Yair Rodriguez, Lorenz Larkin, Robert Whittaker
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