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Old 04-22-2008, 04:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Combat_HapKiDo View Post
If you examine Bas Ruttens videos (of which I have a few) they are all combat style defences and attacks. My style uses almost all of the techniques that he shows on his Lethal Street Fighting video. In our style, we don't fight fair, we fight to win ... so anything goes --- but you can also control the degree to which you react (i.e. if it is just a drunk fight with a friend you can control him and make him give up by causing him intense pain from a joint lock but if it is some guy attacking you on the street intent on injuring you, then you break his arm, wrist, and knee - also use groin strikes, nerve strikes, etc. - totally incapacitate him so he can never get up to attack you again). Combat techniques's are the as same stuff the Marines, British SIS, Israeli Mossad, and the Russian FSB use -- you can't use this stuff in a ring to fight anyone.

We also use a lot of pressure points related to Dim-Mak (also known as death point striking which is an ancient form of t'ai chi ch'uan). Again this stuff is not to be used in sanctioned fights. But even if you don't train pressure points (which take a long time to learn), a combat style is best for self-defense. So if you want the best self-defense techiques for protecting yourself, you want to train a combat style, specifically of a jiu-jitsu derivative style.

Actually, almost all styles come from jiu-jitsu but I mean ones that still utilize joint locks and controls as well as finishing techniques and also include striking techniques.

I know this is bound to stir some controversy here because most guys on this forum will swear that BJJ is the only way to go but really you need striking as well and for self-defense you don't want to screw around - why take a guy down? - collapse his knee and drop him while you stay up to deal with any other problems - ideally, you want to incapacitate your opponent so a combat style will excel at this area.

Again, there is a place for everything - for MMA, a mixture of BJJ, Muay Thai, wrestling and boxing (striking) works best and these styles are most popular on this forum because most people are interested in sport fighting. True self defense is different. I realize these points have been argued ad nauseum on this forum and I don't really want to argue with anyone and spend the next two days arguing what I am saying but its true.

The guy that I quoted has a point Karate is not the most effective in a fight but it is still useful. Escrima is good as well - all martial arts will help you, everyone has its place. Some are more for show and aesthetical purposes but they provide some benefits.

There is a place for Karate, which as the person I quoted said is not ideal for fighting.... but it teaches you technique and form and then these can be used in other styles that you learn to compliment Karate. True it is a hard style and it is usually better and easier to use a soft style to fight but I would argue it is still worthwhile to learn. Contrary to a lot of what you hear on this forum, there is a place for traditional styles as well as the most popular ones right now.

Combat styles won't usually accept someone as young as your son because kids under the age of 15 generally have very soft bones and can be injured with joint locks, etc. So I would say to yo that Karate is a good place for your son to start and then if he is still interested when he is older he can graduate to combat techniques. My son is dying to join our school but he has to wait until he develops more and that's one reason I have him in Karate. There are a lot of other benefits - discipline, self-confidence, the ability to focus. All of these will benefit your son and as I said Karate will still teach him the basics and with his improved confidence, it's doubtful that he will be picked on. Karate skills still work in a fight especially if the other person is not trained.
thats what i am saying why the living **** do u need bjj? to submit a hobo in the street? to choke out some crazy black bum? i personally do judo/muay thai/bjj/eskrima i am not gonna try to do triangle choke in the street fight, i rather clinch somebody and **** him up with a knee, or do osotogari or some shit...
bjj is great in mma but not in the street
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Old 04-24-2008, 09:35 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIKI View Post
honestly man ... i was raised in easter europe... i have been in moscow .. in looooooot of street fights , trust me karate will not save u from anything ...
i recommend u to take for ur son for a muay thai classes and also eskrima if u can effort that , if u find a good instructor in eskrima trust me u will be amazed , it is a Philippine martial art that utilaiz stick fighting also fist fighting and lots of arm locks and other interesting staff ... karate is bullshit , not striking with ur fist is bulshit to , u know i agree u might brake ur hand but if u know how to properly punch than nothing will happen. i recommend u to download bass rutten videos
ps there is nothing better than good old kitchen knife...
I need some escrima links where I can get diagrams of the 12-point strike,etc. I have to know it for my tkd purple belt. any info would be appreciated, thanks.
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:28 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Combat_HapKiDo and JIKI

Thank you for your replies. I have read every word and I will go back and read them again. JIKI, I met my wife in Moscow. She is from Novosibirsk. I was there for 1 whole month in 1994, - in the winter!

I will investigate "muay thai classes and also eskrima" as you say. I am not familiar with these, but I will find out. And I am very interested in learning and teaching my son about stick fighting too and the arm locks and other submissions. I respect your experience from street fighting. Did the street fights end up in a clinch and then down on the ground as the Gracies say in their documentaries?

While my boy is so young, I can't start teaching him to use knives. And I don't want him to be thinking about lethal styles. I have already been speaking to him about using just enough force to remove the threat. But I want to know about these lethal moves for myself!

And Combat_HapKiDo I will teach my son caution when practicing some of the joint locks. I want him to learn these joint locks early early so he will be ready when the inevitable happens in Jr. High School. Maybe some of this will transfer over to a wrestling team in High School.

I am starting to download some of the instructionals. I have not seen any UFC Fighting except for "Choke." Frank Shamrock is a scary looking guy but I like his instructionals. His heavy brow is amazing. He speaks very well! At this early stage, I rate his instructionals highly. I am looking forward to seeing other instructionals.
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:40 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Combat_HapKiDo and JIKI

Thank you for your replies. I have read every word and I will go back and read them again. JIKI, I met my wife in Moscow. She is from Novosibirsk. I was there for 1 whole month in 1994, - in the winter!

I will investigate "muay thai classes and also eskrima" as you say. I am not familiar with these, but I will find out. And I am very interested in learning and teaching my son about stick fighting too and the arm locks and other submissions. I respect your experience from street fighting. Did the street fights end up in a clinch and then down on the ground as the Gracies say in their documentaries?

While my boy is so young, I can't start teaching him to use knives. And I don't want him to be thinking about lethal styles. I have already been speaking to him about using just enough force to remove the threat. But I want to know about these lethal moves for myself!

And Combat_HapKiDo I will teach my son caution when practicing some of the joint locks. I want him to learn these joint locks early early so he will be ready when the inevitable happens in Jr. High School. Maybe some of this will transfer over to a wrestling team in High School.

I am starting to download some of the instructionals. I have not seen any UFC Fighting except for "Choke." Frank Shamrock is a scary looking guy but I like his instructionals. His heavy brow is amazing. He speaks very well! At this early stage, I rate his instructionals highly. I am looking forward to seeing other instructionals.
there is no point of teaching Brazilian JJ to ur son if he wont compete.... i mean will u wrestle a BUM and than choke him out or just clinch his had and knee him in the face... because there is a chance that he might bight u on the ground thats all i am sayn . Muay thai is most effective striking system and it can be used in self defense 2
and also nobody knows when the attacker will pull out 9mm gun and just shoots u . it is better to avoid fighting ...
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Old 04-25-2008, 03:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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JIKI
I am facinated by Muay thai, and I will be sure to investigate it since you say it is the most effective striking system. Yes, I would much prefer to finish an opponent on my feet too, - if I have the strength, speed and skill to do it. It is dirty down there on the ground and I don't want to roll around in the dirt or hard floor.

I am also facinated by the few videos I have seen where a skilled BJJ fighter can confidently defeat a skilled karate figher, or a huge wrestler or kick boxer.

So it seems that an 8 year old can steadily learn some BJJ skills and in a few years, have enought skills to defeat a school bully whose only advantage is his bully size and bully strength. Of course, my 8 year old is learning some striking and blocking skills too.

Yes, it is as you say, it is better to stay away from trouble and fighting. The blackbelt at the dojo says "It is easier to stay away from trouble than to get out of trouble." So we are not going to be walking down any allies or hanging around the bad part of town.

But as a concrete, practical matter, my 8 year old does not ride the school bus anymore. It is just too rough. I am not going to let him ride the bus again until he has developed some skills. It is a lot of trouble to change my work schedule around and pick him up from school, but it my responsibility to to protect my son and to teach him to defend himself.
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Old 04-25-2008, 03:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
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JIKI
I am facinated by Muay thai, and I will be sure to investigate it since you say it is the most effective striking system. Yes, I would much prefer to finish an opponent on my feet too, - if I have the strength, speed and skill to do it. It is dirty down there on the ground and I don't want to roll around in the dirt or hard floor.

I am also facinated by the few videos I have seen where a skilled BJJ fighter can confidently defeat a skilled karate figher, or a huge wrestler or kick boxer.

So it seems that an 8 year old can steadily learn some BJJ skills and in a few years, have enought skills to defeat a school bully whose only advantage is his bully size and bully strength. Of course, my 8 year old is learning some striking and blocking skills too.

Yes, it is as you say, it is better to stay away from trouble and fighting. The blackbelt at the dojo says "It is easier to stay away from trouble than to get out of trouble." So we are not going to be walking down any allies or hanging around the bad part of town.

But as a concrete, practical matter, my 8 year old does not ride the school bus anymore. It is just too rough. I am not going to let him ride the bus again until he has developed some skills. It is a lot of trouble to change my work schedule around and pick him up from school, but it my responsibility to to protect my son and to teach him to defend himself.
the thing is that muay thai and karate are very very very different martial arts...bring me any bjj guy of my weight class in the street fight and lets see who will win... karate and kung fu are choreographic martial arts designed for movies but muay thai is real and also check out JUDO it is great for small weighted people because u are using ur opponents strength and trust me ine good judo through and u can break guys spine...
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Old 04-26-2008, 07:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I need some escrima links where I can get diagrams of the 12-point strike,etc. I have to know it for my tkd purple belt. any info would be appreciated, thanks.
Here's a link to a book on Escrima by Latosa and Newman of The Philippine Martial Arts Society,

Escrima

It covers the five basic attacks and defenses, and the use of both one stick and two sticks.

Enjoy.
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Old 04-28-2008, 10:04 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Combat_HapKiDo

Thank you for the free book on Escrima. I will download this tonight when I get home from work. I have scanned the Wikipedia article on Escrima.

What length stick(s) do you prefer?

Long ago in Army Basic Training, they gave us helmets and long pugil sticks with pads on both ends. I was very quick with these and I always beat everyone up! So the Drill Sergeant directed two at a time to fight against me. Sorry to brag, but that's the only martial art I have ever been good at. So you better believe I will try to gather some more info and videos of Escrima!

I have started to download the Bas Rutten instructionals. But it is slow, I suppose I should get a premium membership on MegaDownload.

JIKI

I must investigate Muay Thai and gather some instructionals on this too. Especially because of your experience in street fighting and because you have confidence in your "Science of the Eight Limbs." I like the idea of learning some knee and elbow strikes in a clinch.
Do you also recommend head butts and strikes using your head?

Thank you for your comments. I am learning.
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Old 04-28-2008, 04:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
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well placed head butt is a lethal weapon u can **** up a person really bad
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:22 PM   #20 (permalink)
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yes and a well placed headbutt can earn you a well placed spot in prison.
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