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K-1 Grand Prix K-1 is a combat sport that combines stand up techniques from Muay Thai, Karate, Savate, San shou, Kickboxing and traditional Boxing to determine the single best stand-up fighter in the world (the "1").

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Old 06-13-2008, 12:17 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I know, I'm just trying to find a fighter who didn't start off with kickboxing and is now a great striker, if we weren't doing that then I'd just name every K-1 fighter that ever tried MMA.

And yes, you can use that principal in any arguement, the idea of it is that the word "world class" is being used out of context.
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Old 06-13-2008, 02:01 AM   #22 (permalink)
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The conclusion that I'm drawing from this discussion is that without coming from a high level kickboxing/muay thai backround a fighter is not really able to achieve "world class" striking. You have to consistently face world class strikers to be considered one and without a high level kickboxing/muay thai backround they don't.

The trick is that in MMA these "world class" strikers don't always translate well because thier ground game is often weak. So in MMA a "good" striker that has decent enough TDD and ground skills can keep a fight on the feet and destroy a weak striker/grappler giving the appearance of a better striking game than they actually have. I think that this is what leads to the inaccurate title of "world class" striker in the MMA world.
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Old 06-13-2008, 03:41 AM   #23 (permalink)
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See the way I'm looking at is, people are saying that Hardonk has some of the best leg kicks but his leg kicks aren't that great, they just aren't seen often at HW. Hardonk was a kickboxer that has come to mma and made out to have world class skills. But when he fought a world class kickboxer in Hari he did horrible. So you can look great in mma but be no where near a world class level but people still see you as a world class guy because you do well in mma.
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Old 06-13-2008, 04:16 AM   #24 (permalink)
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See the way I'm looking at is, people are saying that Hardonk has some of the best leg kicks but his leg kicks aren't that great, they just aren't seen often at HW. Hardonk was a kickboxer that has come to mma and made out to have world class skills. But when he fought a world class kickboxer in Hari he did horrible. So you can look great in mma but be no where near a world class level but people still see you as a world class guy because you do well in mma.
what i was originally trying to argue was that its world class MMA striking. not kickboxing obviously however i think that this term is thrown about in mma alone even with only taking mma into consideration, but still theres not alot of dominatn strikers in mma at the moment.

btw hardonk didnt impress me that much with his striking skills, he got hit ALOT by sanchez, who im not impressed with either
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Old 06-13-2008, 04:18 AM   #25 (permalink)
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what i was originally trying to argue was that its world class MMA striking. not kickboxing obviously however i think that this term is thrown about in mma alone even with only taking mma into consideration, but still theres not alot of dominatn strikers in mma at the moment.
I agree with that. If they just limited their label to mma only it would be fine. But you have people who just hear the "world class label" and automatically assume that these guys are the best in the world.
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