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Old 07-28-2012, 04:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Facts, effects and myths about guns in the USA

Also about that gun stuff. I saw a number 60,000 and im not sure what it represents. Here in america the total number of gun related deaths per year are around 30,000 (according to the CDC). But you have to keep in mind that these include all gun related suicides, killing yourself via gun is very popular here in america. In fact it accounts for 17-18,000 of that 30,000 I mentioned. Then you look at the people cops shot(around 400) , accidentally shot (around 700) etc. Basically 12,000 is the number we're left with of people who shoot and kill someone on purpose every year in america.

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The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides,[5] with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vio..._United_States

I'm not sure how well you guys are at gauging risk, but just as a comparison you're 4 times more likely to die in a car wreck than getting shot. Three times more likely to die from being poisoned, twice as likely to die from an "unintentional fall". Some of these might sound about right but how about these two: you're hundreds of times more likely to die from eating fast food or smoking cigarettes than you are from being shot. You don't even have to smoke, you're 4 times more likely to die from second hand smoke than from being shot.

~Lists of the top 10 things that kill men~

http://www.idph.state.il.us/mensheal...lththreats.htm

So relatively speaking things that are far more likely to kill you in america rather than being shot: fast food, cigarettes, alcohol, second hand smoke, driving a car, poisoning, falling, cancers.... Theres a lot.

Also I'd like to look at the ways that guns are used, when they are used. Are we running around shooting up ez marts and stuff every day or are we using them to save lives and defend ourselves?

Article: 24 out of 25 gun uses are for self defense, and not crime.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...ense-Not-Crime

Actual numbers:

http://gunowners.org/sk0802.htm

Post questions, opinions and facts. But link to evidence for your facts etc, no evidence required for opinions :P
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Old 07-28-2012, 04:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The number 60,000 was a combined statistic of 48,000 who are shot intentionally per year but don't die, and 12,000 who are shot and do die in criminal acts.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_p..._day_in_the_US

I am on your side, basically pointing out that even if you take both deaths and non-deaths from guns, you're looking at around .02% of people who own guns using them against other people.
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Old 07-28-2012, 04:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by M.C View Post
The number 60,000 was a combined statistic of 48,000 who are shot intentionally per year but don't die, and 12,000 who are shot and do die in criminal acts.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_p..._day_in_the_US

I am on your side, basically pointing out that even if you take both deaths and non-deaths from guns, you're looking at around .02% of people who own guns using them against other people.
Oh right
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Old 07-28-2012, 04:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I don't like these kind of statistics. Nobody in this world can diagnose death by cigarette or fast food. It's not like you have to eat fast food to get a heart disease and there are hundreds of causes for cancer. All these numbers are basically fake and all they do is shock people.

I don't really have anything to contribute to the actual discussion.
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Old 07-28-2012, 04:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hammerlock2.0 View Post
I don't like these kind of statistics. Nobody in this world can diagnose death by cigarette or fast food. It's not like you have to eat fast food to get a heart disease and there are hundreds of causes for cancer. All these numbers are basically fake and all they do is shock people.

I don't really have anything to contribute to the actual discussion.
In the face of tons empirical data spanning over seventy years in the study of cigarettes and its effects on humans you can just say its fake because its what you want it to be?

I drank, smoked and ate terrible food last night. It would be nice if those things weren't bad for me. I'd like to believe they aren't, but its the choice I've made to see the world around me as it truly is rather than how I would like it to be.
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Old 07-28-2012, 05:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by xeberus View Post
In the face of tons empirical data spanning over seventy years in the study of cigarettes and its effects on humans you can just say its fake because its what you want it to be?

I drank, smoked and ate terrible food last night. It would be nice if those things weren't bad for me. I'd like to believe they aren't, but its the choice I've made to see the world around me as it truly is rather than how I would like it to be.
As I said, nobody in this world dies of cigarretes. People die because of lung cancer which can be cause by hundreds of things including cigarettes. I seriously doubt the people who made the statistics followed the people who died around all their life to look at their lifestyle. Fake may be the wrong word, maybe unprecise or incorrect.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I don't care to bring up any statistics fitting my opinion on why guns should be legal but I do enjoy them. Cleaning them, shooting them, showing them to my friends, or just buying ammo for them. I don't shoot nearly as often as I'd like to especially with it being summer(a shotgun sitting on a bench in 106 degree weather gets awfully hot) but I go when I can and try to take as many people along as possible.

One of my favorite things to do is introduce new people to firearms. Nephews, friends' kids, women, etc. Showing someone how to safely care for, maintain, and handle a gun is very rewarding.

I bought my mother a Ruger mini 14 knowing that it would be too much for her at first but now she loves shooting it. Young kids that you take shooting seem to feel a type of responsibility to do a good job because they are being trusted with a dangerous weapon. You tell them how good a job they did when they're done and the smile on their face is priceless

I'm rambling and probably have a slight heat stroke from working all day so I'll end it there.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xeberus View Post
Also about that gun stuff. I saw a number 60,000 and im not sure what it represents. Here in america the total number of gun related deaths per year are around 30,000 (according to the CDC). But you have to keep in mind that these include all gun related suicides, killing yourself via gun is very popular here in america. In fact it accounts for 17-18,000 of that 30,000 I mentioned. Then you look at the people cops shot(around 400) , accidentally shot (around 700) etc. Basically 12,000 is the number we're left with of people who shoot and kill someone on purpose every year in america.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vio..._United_States

I'm not sure how well you guys are at gauging risk, but just as a comparison you're 4 times more likely to die in a car wreck than getting shot. Three times more likely to die from being poisoned, twice as likely to die from an "unintentional fall". Some of these might sound about right but how about these two: you're hundreds of times more likely to die from eating fast food or smoking cigarettes than you are from being shot. You don't even have to smoke, you're 4 times more likely to die from second hand smoke than from being shot.

~Lists of the top 10 things that kill men~

http://www.idph.state.il.us/mensheal...lththreats.htm

So relatively speaking things that are far more likely to kill you in america rather than being shot: fast food, cigarettes, alcohol, second hand smoke, driving a car, poisoning, falling, cancers.... Theres a lot.
I'm not going to start an argument here, just a remark: The difference between those other ways of killing and guns is that the first onces are not avoidable or self inflicted. People need their cars to go to their jobs to sustain their living. Falling is unintentionally - and it's quite hard to prevent accidents, with poisoning I guess it's also unintentionally self-poisoning meant, living unhealthy (fast food/smoking) and dying by it is your own choice. Against second hand smoking THERE ARE LAWS (i.e no smoking allowed in restaurants etc.).

Gun killings on the other hand (counting out the suicides) are inflicted by other people who probably mostly don't need their guns for their living (like rangers, cops etc.).

So while you may have a point concerning the quantity in comparison, but you don't have one concerning the quality.
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Old 07-29-2012, 12:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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There are also laws against as you said second hand smoke by designating where you can smoke, still 40,000 deaths a year from it. How about drunk driving?

According to these people: http://dui.lifetips.com/cat/61352/dr...ats/index.html

Around 16,000 die from drunk drivers every year, that's like 30% more than the from guns and it includes innocent families driving home from grandmas house.

The difference is that there are no upsides to all these other ways of death. Where as statistics shows responsible gun owners use these guns to protect themselves and stop crime and that happens 24/25 times. There might be a case for guns to be made illegal if they simply weren't so much more beneficial than dangerous. With guns made illegal there would be more deaths, more crime and few ways to protect yourself.
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Old 07-29-2012, 01:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by xeberus View Post
There are also laws against as you said second hand smoke by designating where you can smoke, still 40,000 deaths a year from it. How about drunk driving?

According to these people: http://dui.lifetips.com/cat/61352/dr...ats/index.html

Around 16,000 die from drunk drivers every year, that's like 30% more than the from guns and it includes innocent families driving home from grandmas house.
Driving drunk is forbidden.

Quote:
The difference is that there are no upsides to all these other ways of death. Where as statistics shows responsible gun owners use these guns to protect themselves and stop crime and that happens 24/25 times. There might be a case for guns to be made illegal if they simply weren't so much more beneficial than dangerous. With guns made illegal there would be more deaths, more crime and few ways to protect yourself.
I'm not even sure if that's true. In Germany or France and most of Europe, you don't have more deaths or more crimes, even though guns are pretty illegal (with few exceptions) and for criminals it's not hard to get guns on the black market.

I'm not arguing for or against banning guns. I just think that the "the more guns are around, the safer it is" argument isn't valid.
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