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Old 03-26-2007, 05:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
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15 British Soilders on Trial

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Fifteen British soldiers currently undergoing interrogation after being seized by Iran’s Revolutionary Guards off the coast of Iraq for entering Iranian waters are under serious threat of torture if the West's treatment of suspected foreign enemies is anything to go by.

The Iranian foreign minister has said the issue is "being considered legally" and has suggested there may be charges.

Sources close to the Iranian leadership have stated: “If it is proven that they deliberately entered Iranian territory, they will be charged with espionage. If that is proven, they can expect a very serious penalty since according to Iranian law, espionage is one of the most serious offences.”

The penalty for espionage in Iran is death.

The warning followed claims by Iranian officials that the British navy personnel had been taken to Tehran, the capital, to explain their “aggressive action” in entering Iranian waters.

Despite it being reported that the Royal Navy personnel have admitted being in the country's waters to Iranian officials, Tony Blair and other senior British officials have insisted that they were in Iraqi waters.

Blair stated "It is simply not true that they went into Iranian territorial waters and I hope the Iranian government understands how fundamental an issue this is for us."

Blair also warned Iran last night that it has only a few days to find a diplomatic solution to the escalating crisis over the 15 missing British sailors and Marines. Presumably the situation would be escalated by Britain after such time should the marines not be handed over.

The US now has two carrier fleets in the Persian gulf which are officially operating there, according to Defense Secretary Gates, as a show of strength to Iran. Britain has also recently boosted its naval presence, having sent HMS Cornwall, a type-22 frigate, two mine sweepers, HMS Ramsey and HMS Blythe, and a vessel from the Royal Fleet Auxiliary to the area.

Despite British denials, Iran's claims have been backed up by a senior Iraqi officer:

“We were informed by Iraqi fishermen after they had returned from sea that there were British gunboats in an area that is out of Iraqi control,” said Brigadier-General Hakim Jassim, who is in charge of Iraq’s territorial waters. “We don’t know why they were there.”

Admiral Sir Alan West, who was accused of similar accusations of spying by Iran when eight British servicemen were detained in the same area in 2004, has stated that any "confession" by British servicemen "means absolutely nothing":

"These particular people would not be trained in counter-interrogation techniques because they are not expected to be captured. But I think our guidance to anyone in that position would be to say what they want you to say, let's not be silly about it. Don't tell them secrets, clearly, but if they tell you: 'Say this', well if that's going to get you out, then do it. It means absolutely nothing, what they say, to be honest."

Sadly in terms of international trend setting, Britain and the US has blazed the way for harsh interrogation techniques and after the debacle of the Khalid Sheikh Mohammed "confession" two weeks ago, the example the West has set is that such "confessions" gained under torture are perfectly admissible in a court.

Iran's ambassador to Iraq, Hassan Kazemi Qomi, told The Associated Press in a telephone interview from Baghdad that there was no connection between the seizures of the 15 and any other issues between the West and Iran. He denied any aim for a prisoner swap.

Reports have suggested that Iran is acting in retaliation for U.S. actions on 11 January when military forces raided the Iranian liaison office in the Kurdish capital Arbil and detained five Iranian officials who are still prisoners.

Ahmad Bakhshaysh, a political analyst and professor in politics in Tehran's Allameh University, said a prisoner swap was not what Iran wanted.

"Iran is not after retaliation regarding abduction of its diplomats. ... However, Iran will use this opportunity to show to the world public opinion that Britons were (the) invader and Iran was victim of the Westerners bullying policy," he said.

The U.S. claims that the five Iranians taken captive in Iraq are part of an Iranian Revolutionary Guard force that provides funds, weapons and training to Shiite militias in Iraq.

The evidence for this is somewhat murky, indeed there is more evidence to suggest that the advance infra-red bomb technology being employed by some insurgents was developed by British and US special forces. This has raised serious questions as it has also been revealed that such elite units are recruiting, training and arming insurgents and terrorists as double agents.

Meanwhile in other developments, a well-known Russian journalist, Andrei Uglanov in the Moscow weekly “Argumenty Nedeli.” has calimed that Russian military experts close to the Russian General Staff have uncovered plans for a US military attack on Iran slated for the first week of April.
what can i say...Karma is a *****. its not really fair to those soldiers, but a precedent was set for "harsh interrogation techniques". wouldn't surprise me in the least if Bush attacked Iran.
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Old 03-26-2007, 05:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
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And the world continues to go to hell in a handbasket under our "Great Leader's" watch. Is Bush's term almost up? Seriously. 8 years seems like an eternity.
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Old 03-26-2007, 07:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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If they touch my boys, the greatest army in thw world gonna **** yo up(thats the British army, not the American one).
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Old 03-27-2007, 05:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:

Iran's arrest of sailors was legitimate, says former UK envoy

IRNA
Tuesday, March 27, 2007

Former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan, Craig Murray Monday supported Iran's decision to arrest 15 UK marines in the Persian Gulf last week.

"In international law the Iranian government were not out of order in detaining foreign military personnel in waters to which they have a legitimate claim," Murray said, who was also a previous head of Foreign Office's maritime section, carrying out negotiations on the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.

"For the Royal Navy, to be interdicting shipping within the twelve mile limit of territorial seas in a region they know full well is subject to maritime boundary dispute, is unnecessarily provocative," he said.

The former envoy said that this was "especially true as apparently they were not looking for weapons but for smuggled vehicles attempting to evade car duty."
"What has the evasion of Iranian or Iraqi taxes go to do with the Royal Navy?" he questioned in comments on his webpage, set up after he was sacked from his post in 2004 after criticizing British foreign policy.

While working for the Foreign Office, Murray was also head of the UK's Embargo Surveillance Centre, analyzing Iraqi attempts to evade sanctions and providing information to UK military forces and to other governments to effect physical enforcement of the embargo.

He said that under international law, Britain would have been allowed to enter Iranian territorial waters if in "hot pursuit" of terrorists, slavers or pirates. But added "they weren't doing any of those things."
"Plainly, they were not engaged in piracy or in hostilities against Iran. The Iranians can feel content that they have demonstrated the ability to exercise effective sovereignty over the waters they claim," the former envoy said.

He criticized the "ridiculous logic" of Prime Minister Tony Blair, saying he was creating a mess that "gets us further into trouble." The Daily Mirror, which has been an outspoken opponent of the Iraq war, reminded its readers Monday that "if the UK had never joined the disastrous invasion of Iraq, the 15 would not have been put in a position where they could be seized."
In its editorial on the incident, it also said that "US threats in the recent past to launch military strikes on Iran have inflamed tensions."
Iran's arrest of sailors was legitimate, says former UK envoy - Irna
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Old 04-04-2007, 06:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
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looks like this one will have a happy ending after all. big round of applause for Iran showing that the world view on them is completely wrong.
Quote:
NASSER KARIMI
AP
Wednesday April 4, 2007

TEHRAN, Iran - President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Iran would free the 15 detained British sailors and marines Wednesday as an Easter holiday "gift" to the British people.

He said the captives, who were seized while on patrol in the northern Persian Gulf on March 23, would be taken to the airport following his news conference, but Iranian state television reported they would leave Iran on Thursday. An Iranian official in London said they would be handed over to British diplomats in Tehran.

After the news conference, state television showed Ahmadinejad meeting with the British crew, dressed in business suits, at the presidential palace. He shook hands and chatted with them through a translator, and a caption to the video said the meeting was taking place as part of the "process of release."

"We appreciate it. Your people have been really kind to us, and we appreciate it very much," one of the crew could be heard telling Ahmadinejad in English.

Another said: "We are grateful for your forgiveness."

Ahmadinejad responded in Farsi, "You are welcome."

In London, the office of Prime Minister Tony Blair said it welcomed the news. President Bush, who had condemned the seizure of the Britons and referred to them as "hostages," also welcomed the news, said his national security spokesman, Gordon Johndroe.

Their release would end a 13-day standoff between London and Tehran that was sparked when the crew was seized as it searched for smugglers off the Iraqi coast. Britain denied Iranian claims the crew had entered Iranian waters.

Recent days saw talk of direct negotiations between Britain and Iran, and a decrease in tensions that had risen after Iran broadcast videos in which female British sailor Faye Turney and others "confessed" to violating Iranian territorial waters, and Britain expressed outrage.

Ahmadinejad said the British government had sent a letter to the Iranian Foreign Ministry pledging that entering Iranian waters "will not happen again." Britain issued no immediate confirmation of the letter.

"On the occasion of the birthday of the great prophet (Muhammad) ... and for the occasion of the passing of Christ, I say the Islamic Republic government and the Iranian people with all powers and legal right to put the soldiers on trial forgave those 15," he said, referring to the Muslim prophet's birthday on March 30 and the Easter holiday.

"This pardon is a gift to the British people," he said.

The surprise announcement came shortly after Ahmadinejad pinned a medal on the chest of the Iranian coast guard commander who intercepted the sailors and marines.

A Downing Street spokeswoman said Blair's office was "establishing exactly what this means in terms of the method and timing of their release."

An Iranian official in London said the crew members would be handed over to British diplomats in Tehran and that it would then be up to the Foreign Office to decide how they would return home.

"They will go through some brief formalities and then they will go to the embassy," said the diplomat, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the negotiations. "They can go on a British Airways flight to Heathrow, they can go through the UAE (United Arab Emirates), it is up to the British Embassy in Tehran in coordination with the Foreign Office here."

In London, a Foreign Office spokesman said wanted to "make sure we've actually got them in hand, and that they're safe and well," before making travel plans.

A group of British service members who were seized by Iran in 2004 were sent back to the British sector of southern Iraq aboard an Iranian commercial flight, after stops in Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates.

Ahmadinejad's announcement came after Iran's state media reported that an Iranian envoy would be allowed to meet five Iranians detained by U.S. forces in northern Iraq. Another Iranian diplomat, separately seized two months ago by uniformed gunmen in Iraq, was released and returned Tuesday to Tehran.

Ahmadinejad said Iran will never accept trespassing in its territorial waters.

"On behalf of the great Iranian people, I want to thank the Iranian coast guard who courageously defended and captured those who violated their territorial waters," he said.

"We are sorry that British troops remain in Iraq and their sailors are being arrested in Iran," Ahmadinejad said.

Ahmadinejad asked Blair not to "punish" the crew for confessing that they had been in Iranian waters when they were seized by Iranian coast guard. Iran broadcast video of some of the crew giving confessions, angering Britain.

He also criticized Britain for deploying Turney in the Gulf, pointing out that she is a woman with a child.

"How can you justify seeing a mother away from her home, her children? Why don't they respect family values in the West?" he asked of the British government.

Iran has denied it seized the Britons to force the release of Iranians held in Iraq, and Britain has steadfastly insisted it would not negotiate for the sailors' freedom.

Iran's official Islamic Republic News Agency said earlier Wednesday that an Iranian envoy would be allowed to meet with the five detained Iranians in Iraq but gave no further details.

A U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad said, however, that American authorities were still considering the request. The spokesman, Maj. Gen. William C. Caldwell, said an international Red Cross team, including one Iranian, had visited the prisoners but he did not say when.

Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari told The Associated Press that the case of the five Iranians detained in Irbil, the capital of the Kurdish self-governing region in northern Iraq, had no connection with the British captives.

Zebari, a Kurd, said his government had been relaying Iranian requests for a meeting with the five detainees, but could not confirm the request had been approved.

In a commentary, the Iranian news agency said the movement on the Iranian prisoner issue was due in part to "the new American political and military appointments in Iraq."

The agency was referring to Gen. David Petraeus, who assumed command of U.S. forces in February, and Ryan Crocker, who began work as the new U.S. ambassador to Iraq last month.

U.S. troops detained the five Iranians on Jan. 11, accusing them of links to an Iranian Revolutionary Guard network that was supplying money and weapons to insurgents in Iraq.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said President Bush had approved the strategy of raiding Iranian targets in Iraq as part of efforts to confront the government in Tehran.

Iraqi Kurds, like the country's Shiites, maintain close ties with Shiite-dominated Iran, despite their warm relationship with the U.S. and have been upset over the arrests in their own capital.

Iran denounced the raid and insisted that the five were diplomats who were engaged exclusively in consular work. The Iraqi government said they were arrested at an office that was supposed to become an Iranian consulate.

The British newspaper The Independent reported this week that the Irbil raid had escalated tensions between the U.S. and Iran and may have set the stage for the March 23 seizure of the British naval personnel.

Also Wednesday, a Kuwaiti newspaper quoted Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallem as saying Damascus was also mediating the case of the 15 Britons.
Iran to release 15 British sailors - Yahoo! News
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Old 04-04-2007, 08:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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[quote=baz00ca]looks like this one will have a happy ending after all. big round of applause for Iran showing that the world view on them is completely wrong.

naw not mine they are evil
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Old 04-04-2007, 08:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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No no, the world view on them is NOT wrong lol. There's something fishy about this. The world view is definately NOT wrong. The same guy saying this is an easter gift is also the same guy who refuses to dismantle his nuclear program, and had threatened Israel the Uk and US to wipe them off the face of the planet, the same guy who denies the holocaust, the same guy who provides Iraqi insurgents with weapons to kill our soldiers, the same guy who tells his people that Jews are the descendents of dogs and pigs. He may have done this one good deed without any ultimatum (but I doubt it), but that still doesn't change the fact that he's one evil and screwed up individual.

IMO this is and was all a ploy from the start to put on the impression that Iran is a caring and compassionate country. Guess it worked (for some people)

"He singled out the female British captive, Leading Seaman Faye Turney, 26, and said: "You will know that among the detainees there is one lady who is a mother of a child. Why is it that the most difficult work like patrolling at sea should be given to a woman?

"Why is there no respect for motherhood? Why does the West not value its women?"

The Iranian president also said he was "saddened" by Britain's violation of its borders and criticised Britain for not being brave enough to admit that it had made a mistake."


That's called rhetoric, and propoganda. Now I'm not saying Iranians in general are evil, from what I gather they are good people. But Ahmedinjad is the master of rhetoric and propoganda behind only Al Gore lol. Do you see how he is trying to turn the tables and make it seem like the West is at fault for all this stuff. Trying to make it seem like the West treats their women like shit when in reality it's the mideast that treats their women like less than dogs. He also made some mentions to we should all believe in one god and just love each other blah blah blah, that's nothing more than Radical Islam rhetoric.

Also, the article you posted is from Yahoo!. Yahoo! and Google are well known to be very bias on the side of islam. Google earth deliberatly shows the whereabouts of US military bases in the middle east, and they also show extreme bias to Palestine by saying some pieces of land in that area are owned by Palestine, when it's a well known fact it's owned by Israel. The article you posted sugar coated the story, and left out some kind of important parts (like the part I posted in Italics above).

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Old 04-04-2007, 08:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
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DONT FORGET... most raise their children to think suicide is good.....

and that if we dont convert to Islam {Radical Islam} that we should either be slaves or die
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Old 04-04-2007, 09:26 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by liveson777
DONT FORGET... most raise their children to think suicide is good.....

and that if we dont convert to Islam {Radical Islam} that we should either be slaves or die
I wouldn't say "most". I'm sure a lot of them do, but there are literally BILLIONS of muslims in the world, I have heard that the Iranian people are actually really nice and helpful people, aside from a small percentage (which is a huge number considering there's so many) of radical islam groups who hate the west. But yea, a lot of them do raise their children to think suicide is good, a couple days ago I saw a video of a 4 year old on one of their local stations saying she wants to grow up to be a suicide bomber, so yea obviously a good amount of people over there do otherwise it prolly wouldn't have aired. I don't know about "most" of them though.

By defintion the word "muslim" is arabic for submission. And that's where the radicals come in. They take their religion literally and go and try to force the world to 'submit' to Allah, rather than just preaching the good word and letting people make their own choice.

That's why taking "the word of God" literally is a very dangerous (and kind of stupid to be quite honest) thing to do.

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Old 04-04-2007, 09:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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But the thing you are forgettn is that its spreading so rapidly... due to misconceptions from their leaders twisting our intentions there
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