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Old 01-15-2013, 02:23 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Bresko View Post
@Rofl
1989
she was 17 man. You have to be a sick man to want to gang bang a 17 year old when you are a grown ass man. I know it's legal but it's kinda suspect that they are all into having massive **** fests with only one woman involved.



2012/13
Another thing that caught my attention was that the two alledged rapists said they would "take her back to an instructor's house", surely that implies that said instructor is at the very least condoning of the acts.

Oh come on with that. She was in college, they were in college. They are all kids. Don't act like just because they were 18+ year old men and she was a 17 year old woman that she's a little girl and they were big mature adults. Lloyd was 20 at the time and a lot of the guys were around that age or younger...19..

But yes I never understood the whole running a train on someone...even though it happens a lot with young men and woman...apparently.


I don't think that quote means anything at all because she was drunk and it likely was something they told her to get her to feel comfortable...they clearly didn't take her back to an instructor's house...they just raped her.


I don't think Lloyd was condoning that at all.
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:35 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roflcopter View Post
Oh come on with that. She was in college, they were in college. They are all kids. Don't act like just because they were 18+ year old men and she was a 17 year old woman that she's a little girl and they were big mature adults. Lloyd was 20 at the time and a lot of the guys were around that age or younger...19..

But yes I never understood the whole running a train on someone...even though it happens a lot with young men and woman...apparently.


I don't think that quote means anything at all because she was drunk and it likely was something they told her to get her to feel comfortable...they clearly didn't take her back to an instructor's house...they just raped her.


I don't think Lloyd was condoning that at all.
My apologies, I didn't realise that they were all around the same age on the initial ****.


When I used "Said instructor", I wasn't implying that it is Lloyd I am talking about, you are right though, it's very possible they said that to make her feel more comfortable.

Lloyd may not have been condoning in this particular case but we know of one situation where He himself did not participate, but was around and actively "condoning" the activities.

It's probably a horrible coincidence as he was young and dumb, not headstrong enough to tell his drunk friends that what they were doing was wrong. Nothing else has come up aside from that so he's stayed pretty clean since then. I just have to place him under extra scrutiny based on his history..

Either way this is shocking for business. Karma for not stopping the **** in 89 I guess.

Lloyd's friend coming to his aid, who knew nothing about the 1989 incident did him a serious disservice by saying what he did. People were convicted, to call the victim a "dirty whore" or whatever he called her is downright disgusting. (assuming she didn't just exploit them cos she felt embarrassed)
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:34 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Lloyd Irvin **** Case - Discussion

ROFL and a few others began chatting about this in the WAYDRN thread so ive moved it all here.


Please keep it civil guys
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:44 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
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As an avid Jiujitsu practitioner I've been following this story since it broke. Here's some info I didn't see posted yet. Sorry if anythings been double posted.

Lloyd Irvin
Physician Supports Story Of Gang ****
March 23, 1991|By RONNIE CROCKER Staff Writer
http://articles.dailypress.com/1991-…ton-university

Quote:
Holly Smith was a physician at Riverside Regional Medical Center in the early morning of Oct. 10, 1989, when the 17-year-old was brought in by a police detective for examination. Smith testified Friday that the exam was hampered because the woman suffered from vaginal spasms.

The doctor said the disorder virtually always is the result of ****, rather than consensual sexual intercourse, and that the condition can last for years. Often, she said, women explain that they cannot have intercourse after they have been raped because they get scared and begin to experience the spasms.

``It is very common after ****,'' said Smith. ``It is not common otherwise.''
Quote:
Evans said the woman ordered everybody out but the first two men, but that the others crowded around the door. Later, after the crowd left, Gatling and Lloyd E. Irvin Jr. went in. Evans said he followed them in, sat at the foot of the bed and listened as the two men had sex with her.

``I was curious,‘’ he explained in a tense exchange with Assistant Commonwealth’s Attorney Aundria D. Foster.

Evans said that after Gatling and Irvin left the room, he approached the woman from behind and began massaging her shoulders. But when he tried to get her to lean back for him, she pushed him away and he fell off the bed. He said he immediately left the room.

Evans told his lawyer that he wanted to have sex with the woman, but ``only with her consent.’’

On Thursday, the woman presented a much different version of the incident, which lasted into the early morning of Oct. 8.

She testified that she had already been raped and sodomized, and that some of the men in the apartment were holding her down when Evans approached her and tried to have sex. She said she freed herself just long enough to push him away.

She said Evans punched her in the mouth, cursed her and stormed off.

Smith, the physician, testified that the woman had a bruised lower lip when she came to Riverside.

http://articles.dailypress.com/1990-04-20/news/9004200218_1_irvin-gang-****-case-two-men


Quote:
"At one point, one of the men talked about how easy it would be to toss the slightly built, 5-foot-2-inch woman over the balcony. She said she was watching television when one of the men asked her to step into the bedroom so he could talk to her.

The woman said that man and a friend began pulling her clothes off and forcing her onto the bed. She said one man had oral sex with her while the other had sexual intercourse with her.

"I couldn't breathe and I couldn't understand why they were doing this to me," she said.

Other men came in and raped her repeatedly, she said. After the group left, Gatling and Irvin came in and closed the door behind them, she said.

"I was lying on the bed crying," the woman testified, maintaining her composure. "I was trying to figure out what I was going to do."

At that point, she said, Irvin began having sexual intercourse with her while Gatling held her down and forced her to have oral sex with him. The girl said she did not cry out for help because she was afraid one of the men might follow through with the threat to throw her off the balcony."
Lloyd Irvin's Sambo Instructor
http://federal-circuits.vlex.com/vid...erger-41167091

Quote:
Densberger was the adoptive father of three boys, Mark Jr., Bruce, and Bryan Densberger. In May 2004, the oldest son, Bryan, contacted the Pennsylvania State Police to report that his father raped him. In a two-page written statement, Bryan told the Pennsylvania State Police that since October 1996, when he was thirteen years old, Densberger had repeatedly sexually assaulted him and his brothers. Bryan alleged that his father: (1) forced them to perform oral and anal sex on him and one another for both their punishment and his pleasure, (2) videotaped many of the assaults that occurred during the eight-year period, and (3) instructed his sons to bring girls home and have sex with them in the martial arts studio (a converted detached garage) so Densberger could secretly videotape those sexual acts.

On May 15, 2004, a search warrant was executed on Densberger’s home in Milton, Pennsylvania. Authorities recovered nine video tapes depicting Densberger engaging in graphic sexual activity with his sons, his sons engaging in the same activity with one another, and his sons engaging in sexual activity with three minor females. Densberger was charged under Pennsylvania law with possession of child
Lloyd Irvin's Students
Warning: The description of the event on this link is pretty graphic.
Details of Schultz/Maldonado Case
http://www.fightopinion.com/2013/01/...students-****/

From all this information what I gather is that this represents three generations of martial artists all involved in cases involving ****. If that doesn't say something negative about the culture at that camp then I don't know what does.

I mean think about it all these people in these cases know each other. How many people are close friends of yours who have been involved crimes like this?

Not to mention the whole "she was a whore and was asking for it" thing from one of Lloyd's blackbelts.

Also take into consideration that the first think that Lloyd Irvin did when the whole mess about his case came out was buy lloydirvinerape.com and market it as a **** prevention website.

And why hasn't he come out and said anything if he was not in the wrong?

None of us where there during any of these events, but if the above doesn't at least seem strange, then I don't know what else to say.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:13 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Bresko View Post
My apologies, I didn't realise that they were all around the same age on the initial ****.


When I used "Said instructor", I wasn't implying that it is Lloyd I am talking about, you are right though, it's very possible they said that to make her feel more comfortable.

Lloyd may not have been condoning in this particular case but we know of one situation where He himself did not participate, but was around and actively "condoning" the activities.

It's probably a horrible coincidence as he was young and dumb, not headstrong enough to tell his drunk friends that what they were doing was wrong. Nothing else has come up aside from that so he's stayed pretty clean since then. I just have to place him under extra scrutiny based on his history..

Either way this is shocking for business. Karma for not stopping the **** in 89 I guess.

Lloyd's friend coming to his aid, who knew nothing about the 1989 incident did him a serious disservice by saying what he did. People were convicted, to call the victim a "dirty whore" or whatever he called her is downright disgusting. (assuming she didn't just exploit them cos she felt embarrassed)

It's hard to tell again without records. From what I read the only signs of a struggle was a bruise on her mouth, you had witnesses saying that the victim was egging the men on. It's literally just the word of the perps and a few witnesses against hers.

And the whole situation leaves a lot of doubt.


She went to 7 men's apartment alone and drunk with them....could be honest poor decision making but it doesn't look good.


My problem with the whole case was when I read it, it said something along the lines of...one of the jurors was quoted saying "I think she was raped but"


Rest of the quote doesn't matter. I'm incredulous to the fact that there could've been a conviction when a juror had uttered that sentence.

There's no time for guesswork when it involves people's freedom. This is how Casey Anthony and OJ Simpson get away with flagrant murder, because something in the trial happens that gives a REASONABLE doubt.


As a juror if you have a doubt, you absolutely cannot vote to convict, and this sort of thing happens WAY too often, especially in sexual assault trials.



I actually like this story because of the appropriate juxtaposition between the two cases.


The first case is an example of everything I hate about our legal system, which I firmly believe is the worst in the 1st world.


The second case is an example of what I hate about people. This is a woman who greeted these men countless times, had conversations, possibly even rolled with them, they had her trust, and when she was drunk and couldn't drive and was in need, they violently raped her. Stories like this is why it's hard to trust anyone these days.....all 15 years they do in prison will be fully deserved and if the judge goes extreme and gives them 25 to life I won't feel too bad about it....and this is coming from someone who generally thinks that way too many people are in prison for way too long for minor or victimless offenses.


Of course the juxtaposition being that cases like case 2 where it's just so heinous and despicable it leads itself to cases like case 1 where you have a questionable situation where the perpetrators are guilty before proven innocent.
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