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Old 01-18-2013, 04:47 AM   #101 (permalink)
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Tower 7. That shit is fishy as hell.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:59 AM   #102 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PheelGoodInc View Post
I think it's hilarious these same people actually accuse the government of committing massive amount of lies and deceptions without proof, but then ignore it when people with their own shared beliefs commit lies and deceptions. I guess it's just government agents posing so it doesn't count
Great comparison ... the government, a public known body with KNOWN representatives tells shady stories, and we raise suspicions ... because this is the OFFICIAL VERSION and it doesn't fit, so of course we suspect the government.

To you this is the same as JOE RANDOM on the internet claiming to be a truther, without any proof of his credentials and motives whatsoever, and this discredits the entire movement? And we are "paranoid" to question this ridiculous dismissal of all proof on your part based on some random BS some random guy said? This is comparable to the PRESIDENT who we all know well saying something?

And you say I am the irrational one?

Tell you what, I never revealed who I am did I? George W Bush actually, pleased to meet you. Yes, I sanctioned 9/11, it was all a good laugh, so you can stop arguing now. You're doubting me you say? WHAT ARE YOU PARANOID?

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Originally Posted by PheelGoodInc View Post
Several small inconsistencies on the official story, and it's proof of a cover up. Massive obvious inconsistencies on the 9/11 deniers parts, and just pretend like it never happened. Great logic...

Yes. Because 9/11 deniers do nothing but point out small coincidences or odd looking things and consider it proof of some massive conspiracy which resulted in the deaths of 3000 innocent people. In the big picture, this conspiracy makes no sense and doesn't have a shred of evidence to back it.
Small inconsistencies? The ENTIRE AFGHAN WAR was based on a "confession" tape of a random arab-ish guy that looks NOTHING LIKE OSAMA BIN LADEN (Exhibit E):



http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/im...laden01_04.jpg

An extremely grainy tape (unlike his very clear normal tapes) not released or broadcast on the usual arab stations as he normally did, but miraculously "found" in some random bunker by troops. And taken off the air in the US within days and never shown again, when people questioned it.

And this is a small inconsistency? An entire "war on terror" based on the most flimsy piece of doctored evidence in history?

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Originally Posted by PheelGoodInc View Post
Why argue about no video of a plane when all the evidence and witnesses prove there was actually a plane? Then you think about what using a missile would have accomplished or why they would have done that instead of just using another plane. A missile make no sense. So how about you justify why a missile was better, how all those plane parts and charred bodies got there, how all those people were mistaken when they saw the plane, and then discuss how the lack of video evidence supports the use of a missile. It would make a MUCH stronger case rather than just "There's no video." That is such a narrow minded view it's not worth discussing in itself. I don't understand how you can't grasp that.
Why argue indeed? The pentagon sidestory is almost inconsequential in the big picture. Who cares, because the big picture in 9/11 is that is how do we know it was "Al Qaeda" and Osama that did this, launching a trillion dollar war?

I'm not arguing whether Osama was a terrorist or that there isn't real terrorism in the world and the middle east, but there is no proof that something this large was his doing when he NEVER REALLY CLAIMED CREDIT FOR IT.

Heck, why don't you explain why his "body" was NEVER SHOWN when he was "killed" (p.s. I believe he died long before in Tora Bora, but that wouldn't have helped fuel the war now would it?). Dumped into the ocean without showing a single person, how very convenient. Showing respect to the terrorist? Why not show the same respect to Saddam then?

Another "small inconsistency" to you I'm sure. Just ignore it and pick some random red herring in my argument and attack that as usual, much better.

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Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
Why are you so willing to follow the line with no proper evidence.
Why indeed? Very disconcerting, considering his background in law enforcement as I remember him discussing at some point in the past? Correct me if I'm wrong PheelGood. Maybe it's the training, the whole "us vs them", don't question orders thing, dunno. Maybe he's just that convinced. Whatever.

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Originally Posted by Soakked View Post
Ok 9/11 is definitely another discussion entirely. IMO it was without a doubt a false flag operation. By whom, and how many conspirators were involved (which alphabet agencies) I do not know, but the official story is total crap.

Rather than discuss the pentagon, you guys should talk about WTC building 7. Myself, personally I am tired of having that conversation because usually there is no discussion in it, only extremes on both sides debating their eyeballs out.
Exactly, the bigger questions are more relevant here.

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Originally Posted by DonRifle View Post
Liddell, I was reading through your posts and your argument was quite convincing until I watched the medical examiners video that you were mentioning. I don't see anything wrong with that video in the slightest, apart from whatever cowboy did the little bit of rewinding and slowing down when the guy did a nervous laugh and then the really ignorant question about 'why are the perps being checked last' or whatever it was. Obviously because they are the least important of the people that died that day. Obviously!!! Jesus lol.

To take a video of a doctor who is thrust in front of national media after probably the most harrowing day of his life and twist it up because he had a nervous laugh for a split second is kind of shambolic. I wouldn't be lining up my arguments around rubbish like that.
Personally as I said before I believe the US government is capable of absolutely anything. Just watch Oliver Stones Untold History of America. But in a case like this with such an extreme level of grief even in the public domain, unless you have something conclusive it is pretty low to be claiming conspiracy on the back of videos like that of the medical guy
You don't find it the slightest bid odd that a chief medical examiner, whose supposed DAILY JOB it is to examine dead bodies for cause of death doesn't know what CALIBER BULLETS were used in the killings?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_examiner

Not only does he not know, but the slow way he repeats the question, nervously trying to buy time to think before finally deflecting it?

You don't find it even slightly odd that this guy is repeatedly laughing with weird ticks (even without the slo mo) on such a tragic and somber occasion?

Does this guy strike you as the kind of highly intelligent person that made it through 8 years of rigorous med school and climbed all the way to his position?

You say it's because he had the most harrowing day of his life, wouldn't you say these Columbine kids had it a bit more harrowing, considering they narrowly escaped death?



How many of them do you see laughing? Fudging and dodging the questions? How many do you see showing "different ways of grieving" like laughing and smirking as claimed by PheelGood?

Either way, different people find different things stick out to them more. Killz seemed a bit amused about this chap as well, but even if you find nothing odd about him, fine, what about all the other evidence though? Just because you're slightly unconvinced on this one thing, the rest ceases to exist?
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:02 AM   #103 (permalink)
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What is the explanation for the WTC building that collapsed without being touched? Internet is shit in Thailand so I can't bring up a vid but surely someone will know what I am talking about.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:26 AM   #104 (permalink)
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Again I dont see any issues with that doctor at all. My gf of four years is a hospital resident so I have had to (unfortunately) go to many social events populated by doctors, consultants and so on. They are an odd bunch of nerds and people will poor social skills as far as I can see, and a lack of confidence in that area probably because of years of anti social behaviour - ie studying and not getting out enough. My GF excluded of course!
I cant imagine what having to go through 30 dead toddlers in one day would do to a person, and you can't expect or predict what an individuals response to that kind of scenario would be.

For me the problem with many conspiracy theories, is they are full of good information and bad, and the bad info invites the ridicule and the dismissing of the theories being presented. Michael Moore is the perfect example of that, his over zealous opinions about some things cast a shadow over the other good stuff he presents.
Last night the final episode aired of Stones Untold History. Possibly the finest hour of television I have ever watched. And even such an expertly put together piece of work will get ridiculed by the 'agencies' of the government. But it will still stand up to scrutiny. The doctor video is perfectly fine in my opinion. Maybe he should know what calibre of bullet it is since he has probably seen many, but doctors don't go through ballistics training.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:28 AM   #105 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liddellianenko View Post
Great comparison ... the government, a public known body with KNOWN representatives tells shady stories, and we raise suspicions ... because this is the OFFICIAL VERSION and it doesn't fit, so of course we suspect the government.
Yet you turn a blind eye when the people who created all these bullshit theories in the first place are caught faking pictures, videos, and reports to fir their agenda. Lets be clear, the ACCUSATIONS against the government are SPECULATIONS. Not proof. There is proof the conspiracy theorist have lied and deceived FAR more than the government. But hey, when you can make shit up to fit your agenda, just accuse the deceivers of being part of the government in the first place. Apparently that makes sense to you.

Quote:
To you this is the same as JOE RANDOM on the internet claiming to be a truther, without any proof of his credentials and motives whatsoever, and this discredits the entire movement? And we are "paranoid" to question this ridiculous dismissal of all proof on your part based on some random BS some random guy said? This is comparable to the PRESIDENT who we all know well saying something?

And you say I am the irrational one?
Yes. The fact you dismiss your own sides lies as a government cover up is not even worth discussing. It proves just how closed your mind actually is.

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Tell you what, I never revealed who I am did I? George W Bush actually, pleased to meet you. Yes, I sanctioned 9/11, it was all a good laugh, so you can stop arguing now. You're doubting me you say? WHAT ARE YOU PARANOID?
Thanks for proving my point.



Quote:
Small inconsistencies? The ENTIRE AFGHAN WAR was based on a "confession" tape of a random arab-ish guy that looks NOTHING LIKE OSAMA BIN LADEN (Exhibit E):



http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/im...laden01_04.jpg

An extremely grainy tape (unlike his very clear normal tapes) not released or broadcast on the usual arab stations as he normally did, but miraculously "found" in some random bunker by troops. And taken off the air in the US within days and never shown again, when people questioned it.

And this is a small inconsistency? An entire "war on terror" based on the most flimsy piece of doctored evidence in history?
Not even close. Had you done the proper research, you would release there was far more than a tape to credit Al Qaeda with 9/11. Financial transactions, phone calls, paper trails, you name it. But of course, that must of all been faked too!

FYI here's a still frame from your video, compared to three other completely accepted pictures of Osama.



Also, let me get this straight. The United States Government, who just killed 3,000 of their own citizens in one of the biggest coverups in the history of the world, couldn't find a better "look a like" to make a video had they wanted to? I swear the common sense is just sucked out of 9/11 deniers sometimes.


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Why argue indeed? The pentagon sidestory is almost inconsequential in the big picture. Who cares, because the big picture in 9/11 is that is how do we know it was "Al Qaeda" and Osama that did this, launching a trillion dollar war?
Exactly. There is proof far beyond a reasonable doubt that the official story is what actually happened. There's no point in arguing these small inconsistencies when nothing else in the big picture adds up the the 9/11 deniers accusations.

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I'm not arguing whether Osama was a terrorist or that there isn't real terrorism in the world and the middle east, but there is no proof that something this large was his doing when he NEVER REALLY CLAIMED CREDIT FOR IT.
Yes, he did on video. Just like with the claim that the pentagon video being released would "clear things up", the 9/11 deniers call the video fake. A crystal clear video of a plane flying into the pentagon would do nothing when your mind is so closed you refuse to believe your own eyes. You know it's a sad day when a video confession can't even be taken as proof by a 9/11 denier.

Quote:
Heck, why don't you explain why his "body" was NEVER SHOWN when he was "killed" (p.s. he died long before in Tora Bora, but that wouldn't have helped fuel the war now would it?). Dumped into the ocean without showing a single person, how very convenient. Showing respect to the terrorist? Why not show the same respect to Saddam then?
Why show it? What would that have achieved? So 9/11 deniers could claim the photo was faked? As much as I dislike Obama, I think the US handled the situation perfectly. They refused to give a burial site which would be praised by his extremist followers.

Saddam was captured alive and tried by his own people for his crimes against them. It was a completely different mission than Osama. I swear some people just regurgitate shit they read online without even using their heads. Yet they're the "open minded" ones.


Quote:
Another "small inconsistency" to you I'm sure. Just ignore it and pick some random red herring in my argument and attack that as usual, much better.
Thats all 9/11 deniers have. They have no proof. They have no usable theory which even makes sense. If the US wanted a war against Afghanistan and Iraq, they could have easily justified it without 9/11... Like they did with Iraq before.


Quote:
Why indeed? Very disconcerting, considering his background in law enforcement as I remember him discussing at some point in the past? Correct me if I'm wrong PheelGood. Maybe it's the training, the whole "us vs them", don't question orders thing, dunno. Maybe he's just that convinced. Whatever.
Yes, I am active in Law Enforcement. This is why I find it hilarious that the Sandy Hook first responders must have been "in on it" too. Look up the Christmas Even Knollcrest murders in Covina, Ca. I was one of the first on scene there. I guess I could have been part of a conspiracy as well.

Also, there is no us vs them. I am a huge advocate of community policing. I get along with 85% of the people I deal with... even a lot of criminals. The problem is over the years I've been trained to use my common sense and logic in situations. That common sense and logic has shaped my political opinions. If you think there's a supervisor on every call giving us orders we blindly follow, you have no idea what law enforcement really does. But hey, conspiracy theorist are much more knowledgeable than everyone about everything. Why don't you explain to me what I do so I can understand how closed minded I am?
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:39 AM   #106 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PheelGoodInc View Post
Yet you turn a blind eye when the people who created all these bullshit theories in the first place are caught faking pictures, videos, and reports to fir their agenda. Lets be clear, the ACCUSATIONS against the government are SPECULATIONS. Not proof. There is proof the conspiracy theorist have lied and deceived FAR more than the government. But hey, when you can make shit up to fit your agenda, just accuse the deceivers of being part of the government in the first place. Apparently that makes sense to you.



Yes. The fact you dismiss your own sides lies as a government cover up is not even worth discussing. It proves just how closed your mind actually is.



Thanks for proving my point.





Not even close. Had you done the proper research, you would release there was far more than a tape to credit Al Qaeda with 9/11. Financial transactions, phone calls, paper trails, you name it. But of course, that must of all been faked too!

FYI here's a still frame from your video, compared to three other completely accepted pictures of Osama.



Also, let me get this straight. The United States Government, who just killed 3,000 of their own citizens in one of the biggest coverups in the history of the world, couldn't find a better "look a like" to make a video had they wanted to? I swear the common sense is just sucked out of 9/11 deniers sometimes.




Exactly. There is proof far beyond a reasonable doubt that the official story is what actually happened. There's no point in arguing these small inconsistencies when nothing else in the big picture adds up the the 9/11 deniers accusations.



Yes, he did on video. Just like with the claim that the pentagon video being released would "clear things up", the 9/11 deniers call the video fake. A crystal clear video of a plane flying into the pentagon would do nothing when your mind is so closed you refuse to believe your own eyes. You know it's a sad day when a video confession can't even be taken as proof by a 9/11 denier.



Why show it? What would that have achieved? So 9/11 deniers could claim the photo was faked? As much as I dislike Obama, I think the US handled the situation perfectly. They refused to give a burial site which would be praised by his extremist followers.

Saddam was captured alive and tried by his own people for his crimes against them. It was a completely different mission than Osama. I swear some people just regurgitate shit they read online without even using their heads. Yet they're the "open minded" ones.




Thats all 9/11 deniers have. They have no proof. They have no usable theory which even makes sense. If the US wanted a war against Afghanistan and Iraq, they could have easily justified it without 9/11... Like they did with Iraq before.




Yes, I am active in Law Enforcement. This is why I find it hilarious that the Sandy Hook first responders must have been "in on it" too. Look up the Christmas Even Knollcrest murders in Covina, Ca. I was one of the first on scene there. I guess I could have been part of a conspiracy as well.

Also, there is no us vs them. I am a huge advocate of community policing. I get along with 85% of the people I deal with... even a lot of criminals. The problem is over the years I've been trained to use my common sense and logic in situations. That common sense and logic has shaped my political opinions. If you think there's a supervisor on every call giving us orders we blindly follow, you have no idea what law enforcement really does. But hey, conspiracy theorist are much more knowledgeable than everyone about everything. Why don't you explain to me what I do so I can understand how closed minded I am?
Extremely Weak. You're saying the govt. will or should never release evidence, because some people will claim it's fake?

Great, I guess every judge should convict people without trials or showing evidence to the public, because obviously the opposing lawyer will try to discredit it. Best just to avoid trial or showing evidence and do whatever the hell they want.

This has to be your weakest point till now.

As far as your "other picture from another frame in the same video", can you please point out what time it was taken from here?:



Because I believe it's your picture that is a touched up fake, what you claim is something truthers do.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:50 AM   #107 (permalink)
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Extremely Weak. You're saying the govt. will or should never release evidence, because some people will claim it's fake?

Great, I guess every judge should convict people without trials or showing evidence to the public, because obviously the opposing lawyer will try to discredit it. Best just to avoid trial or showing evidence and do whatever the hell they want.
No. I'm saying the evidence doesn't exist. Try to keep up. Had the evidence actually existed, it would be pointless to show people like yourself because they will always claim coverup to anything that proves them wrong. Therefore you quest for more "evidence" is a moot point, because any evidence provided will not be seen as "real".



Quote:
This has to be your weakest point till now.

As far as your "other picture from another frame in the same video", can you please point out what time it was taken from here?:



Because I believe it's your picture that is a photoshopped fake, what you claim is something truthers do.
Again, you lack of research on the subject deceives you. Thanks again for proving my point.

The pictures 9/11 deniers like to post are from the low quality, 4fps video which was distorted and appears to make him look fat. Once the higher resolution video was released during the Moussaoui trial it was much easier to see how he really looked.

And yes, my still frame was in your video.



Match the times.

ZOMNG THE GOVERNMENT DID IT!!!!!
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:59 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PheelGoodInc View Post
No. I'm saying the evidence doesn't exist. Try to keep up. Had the evidence actually existed, it would be pointless to show people like yourself because they will always claim coverup to anything that proves them wrong. Therefore you quest for more "evidence" is a moot point, because any evidence provided will not be seen as "real".
You're saying Osama's body never existed? The never took any pictures of his body, let alone videos before dumping him in the ocean? I don't get what you're trying to say, obviously if they killed him there would have been evidence. These soldiers apparently had cameras on their helmets remember? Not to mention plenty of time afterwards to shoot a few clicks even if they didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PheelGoodInc View Post
Again, you lack of research on the subject deceives you. Thanks again for proving my point.

The pictures 9/11 deniers like to post are from the low quality, 4fps video which was distorted and appears to make him look fat. Once the higher resolution video was released during the Moussaoui trial it was much easier to see how he really looked.

And yes, my still frame was in your video.



Match the times.

ZOMNG THE GOVERNMENT DID IT!!!!!
Close, but no cigar. The frames and positions match, but the exact facial expression or facial details do not. Can you link me to this high res video that no one seems to have?
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:18 AM   #109 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Liddellianenko View Post
You're saying Osama's body never existed? The never took any pictures of his body, let alone videos before dumping him in the ocean? I don't get what you're trying to say, obviously if they killed him there would have been evidence. These soldiers apparently had cameras on their helmets remember? Not to mention plenty of time afterwards to shoot a few clicks even if they didn't.
So according to you, the soldiers are lying as well?

Yes, obviously Osama's body existed. I'm saying that evidence wasn't released because they didn't want to glorify him, the same reason why they didn't give him a burial site.

You are missing my point by a long shot. Had the released HD video and photo's, people like you would claim them to be fake. So why are you even asking for them at all?


Quote:
Close, but no cigar. The frames and positions match, but the exact facial expression or facial details do not. Can you link me to this high res video that no one seems to have?
Too funny. The low quality frame doesn't match the high quality frame. Shocker.

http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notable...F00007DVD.html

The actual video seems to not be linked. It was uploaded by several others though. Let me guess, the video was faked too!

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Confession_video

Scroll to to the bottom where it says "Confession" video. Stop the video at 43 seconds. Exactly match. While you're at it, read the rest of the article and all the other crystal clear proof he was behind 9/11.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:27 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Enough for me tonight. There's a reason why I stopped this years ago. Put a centrist in the middle of this conversation, and they would clearly see who has the more valid points.
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