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Old 02-05-2013, 12:24 PM   #201 (permalink)
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The discussions have been civil, no one has been throwing around childish personal insults like some of the members in the other sections of the forum. Just any excuse to stamp your authority on the forum. How about you go and deal with immature posters like UFC OWNS who childishly personally insults lots of members on a regular basis.
Relax grapple. Budi is one of the best mods on this site.

I have danced on the line a couple times. I do have some degree of difficulty keeping things civil in these discussions. It's something I'm pretty passionate about and emotions do get the best of me at times.

That being said, Budi was spot on. I as actually a little shocked when I logged in and didn't have an infraction just now.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:50 PM   #202 (permalink)
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I don't think Alex Jones or HP are the most reliable or truly independent either. I mentioned earlier in this thread that I also believe Jones is a commercial fearmonger that's out to sell stuff, but my point was to debunk your claim that no "conspiracy theorist" gathers their own info or sends out their own journalist.
Well my claim was they didn't send out any investigative journalists, which so far as I can tell, is still true. If you think combing through other media outlets and picking bits and pieces qualifies as that, well then we just disagree on it.

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Unfortunately many of the ones that IMO are completely spot on like Aaron Russo suffer untimely deaths from Cancer etc. Russo also conducted many personal interviews and investigative journalism. Another good documentary with it's own interviews and journalistic / investigative material is the "Inside Job" with Matt Damon as the interviewer, that delves into the banking / financial crisis side of things.
He had it for six years and he was in his 60's, not really untimely. I did like Inside Job and I wish those people at the big investment firms/banks/etc would have some sort of justice served to them.

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Operation Northwoods was submitted to the freaking president of the USA. The fact that it made it all the way to the top means it was far from "preliminary". Preliminary means discussed in a CIA board room somewhere and someone laughing it off. Submitting signed and endorsed by ALL THREE CHIEFS (again, let me belabor this point) is preliminary for no one but govt. apologists like you or Pheel. If Kennedy had not had a conscience it would have been implemented sooner than he could blink. Unfortunately he did, so he died instead.

Yeah it was 30+ years ago, so what? What has changed since then? Was anyone fired? Reprimanded? Even transferred? Were any establishment/constitutional/authority changes made? The entire machinery continued exactly as it did, the only thing that changed was that the guy who disapproved it died, and you think something is magically different in those 30+ years?


The govt. released it because they had to. There was an independent govt. commission set up to look into the Kennedy affair because something this big they just couldn't brush under the carpet, and everything submitted to him was brought under the scanner whether the CIA/Military liked it or not. They didn't release it because they wanted to or were being nice, as you are amusingly trying to imply.
I agree it was messed up and people should have had consequences and they didn't. At the end of the day though, the checks and balances prevailed.
As for releasing documents, it is very easy to not release them. Try to do a FOIA request on any agency and see what you get. The folks holding the documents have more than ample time to manipulate them, shred/delete them or redact all the meaning out.

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And not everyone in the entire govt. is evil or easily bought, it's not as simple or black and white as that ... there are some good honest people in congress, govt., military, FBI, commissions, even mainstream media etc. that try to do their job, but the only ones they need to corrupt or manipulate into position are the handful at the top ... prez, CIA chiefs, military chiefs and so on. That is why they had to release stuff to the commission, because they couldn't corrupt everyone on it.
Agreed, a lot of good ole boy networking and above the law mentality about spending $$ for hook-ups to contract friends or all the personal travel, hookers, and lots of vices on our dime. GSA scandal was the most recent but what can you do to people who have a higher chance of dieing of natural causes at work than of being fired for those past the 2-3 year probational period?

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What do I think happened at Sandy Hook? The whole damn thing was staged. Guys like the incompetent Chief Medical Examiner, police chiefs etc. of that town slowly promoted and brought to their position by govt./CIA favors, approval and planning, so one day they could repay the favor. If they squeal, they are discredited or they die, not like people that scummy or committed would be likely to squeal anyway. People like that are slowly tied in to schemes, their loyalties tested in smaller things before they are set up for something as big as this.

The school and staff ... dunno if the school was even real or some sort of fake thing that the town just never looked into. The parents, bought and paid actors or CIA ops. Plus hey, they get bonus "charity funeral money", for those expensive solid gold casks and stuff they need! Again, who sets up entire public charities a day after their child's death for "funeral expenses"?
Just too far fetched for me to believe but thanks for at least showing your opinion.
Usually whenever there is a tragic loss of life, there is a charity to follow. You are the one implying gold casks, which is pretty much slandering someone who's shoes I hope you never have to be in.
I personally didn't think the medical examiner seemed incompetent in his interview, why do you? I mean the guy isn't going to be John Grism or whoever that NCIS person was but he didn't say anything that wasn't factual to what he witnessed.

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I'm not saying I know all the details, but if they figured they could do it for Operation Northwoods staging attacks like this ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, you don't think they are confident of pulling something like this off in a dinky little town in Connecticut?
Northwood didn't involve killing US citizens and was to combat a perceived enemy nation near our borders. Killing children to increase the likely-hood of stricter gun control laws is to much of a connection for me to draw.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:48 AM   #203 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Freiermuth View Post
Just too far fetched for me to believe but thanks for at least showing your opinion.
Usually whenever there is a tragic loss of life, there is a charity to follow. You are the one implying gold casks, which is pretty much slandering someone who's shoes I hope you never have to be in.
I personally didn't think the medical examiner seemed incompetent in his interview, why do you? I mean the guy isn't going to be John Grism or whoever that NCIS person was but he didn't say anything that wasn't factual to what he witnessed.


Northwood didn't involve killing US citizens and was to combat a perceived enemy nation near our borders. Killing children to increase the likely-hood of stricter gun control laws is to much of a connection for me to draw.
Again I'll get back to the rest of your points along with Pheel later as I'm a bit busy today but thought I'd clarify this main thing.

When I said "staged" I meant there were no deaths at Sandy Hook, children or teachers, just planted stories and chiefs/medical personnel that were in on it.

In that respect I meant it was exactly as they planned Operation Northwoods ... no casualties, a complete fake terrorist / psycho attack without any actual deaths, heck maybe without even any actual shots fired.

Yes 9/11 had real deaths and I would understand if you have more difficulty believing they would kill 3000 of their own citizens. It's happened throughout history and recently with Hitler's Holocaust, Stalin's Gulags and even "people's governments" like after the French revolution, not to mention all the pointless for profit wars fought by democratic govts., but I can see if you have trouble believing the American Govt doing something so direct.

I'll discuss all the reams and reams of inconsistencies, FBI agent whisteblowers, witness accounts etc. that lead me to believe even that though but that is a semi-tangent. Or maybe they didn't do it, just "allowed" it to happen, but I;m inclined to believe they did do it.

As far as Sandy Hook goes, I'm saying it's exactly what they signed their names to for Northwoods, just a few years late and a slightly different agenda. I don't see why you would find that so unbelievable considering they've already been on board with the exact same thing (Northwoods, on a larger scale even) in the past and all the other inconsistencies I've already mentioned.

As far as tragedy funds, did the Columbine parents open charities?

You are confusing tragedies with financial impact such as Katrina etc. with tragedies with only emotional impact such as Sandy Hook (if real). That money would be of absolutely no use to them, they would have nothing to rebuild but their hearts.

Funerals are just not that expensive, every family in the world has to do it at some point, and as I said the president and their communities chipping in should be more than enough for a funeral.

I'm not saying this is out of disrespect, just common sense. I mean would you be plugging for charity funds just a day after your child died? Just rhetorically of course, I hope you or no one in this world ever has to go through anything like that. But IMO money would be the last thing on your mind this soon after the loss, wouldn't it? Not for this guy though:

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Old 02-06-2013, 12:43 PM   #204 (permalink)
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I most certainly am not confusing tragedies. Most of them are done for the tragedy, like most of the Sandy Hook ones are not for an individual, but it's not unique.
Now for the video and 'plug' - A reporter asked a lead in question about the amount of contact he's had to offer support so he mentions he seen a lot of it on the FB page, so our opinions on a plug is a lot different than mine. I don't even know what the FB page looked like or if it was in fact a real charity or just a 'contribute via paypal' link but he said friends of his set it up for him, so it's not like he was thinking about it right away.

There certainly are/were charities set up for Columbine, and yes, in fact, one still going was set up by a parent of a victim.
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Northwood purpose and Sandy Hook purpose are vastly different to me. Best case scenario for a false-flag operation Sandy Hook could be....slightly stricter gun control?

Please all, lets not derail this thread into a 9/11 one or if it does, change the title to something else.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:35 AM   #205 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Freiermuth View Post
I most certainly am not confusing tragedies. Most of them are done for the tragedy, like most of the Sandy Hook ones are not for an individual, but it's not unique.
Now for the video and 'plug' - A reporter asked a lead in question about the amount of contact he's had to offer support so he mentions he seen a lot of it on the FB page, so our opinions on a plug is a lot different than mine. I don't even know what the FB page looked like or if it was in fact a real charity or just a 'contribute via paypal' link but he said friends of his set it up for him, so it's not like he was thinking about it right away.

There certainly are/were charities set up for Columbine, and yes, in fact, one still going was set up by a parent of a victim.
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Northwood purpose and Sandy Hook purpose are vastly different to me. Best case scenario for a false-flag operation Sandy Hook could be....slightly stricter gun control?

Please all, lets not derail this thread into a 9/11 one or if it does, change the title to something else.
So someone asks him a barely related question about contact and he immediately jumps to money and funds which the reporter never asked about? Is that how it works the day after you lose a child? And then when people ask about pictures, again redirect the question shadily to the same fund page? You're right, our definitions of "plugging" must be different, because to me this is a blatant plug.

Rachel's Challenge was founded almost a year after the tragedy and for another cause in memory of the girl (bullying), not "funeral expenses" the day after her death. The comparison is completely invalid. Funeral expenses are for personal use, that fund was for a public cause, long after the event, and with a proper employee and expense structure, not "please give unaccountable money to the parents to do whatever they want, because hey they're sad"

Can you give me a fund page for "funeral expenses" or "personal charities" by columbine parents days after the tragedy?

Af far as "slightly stricter gun control" goes, that is meant to be the proverbial foot in the door, the pandora's box. You really think the govt. ever stops at "slightly" anything when they have their paws on it? How much was that "slight" income tax when it was first started? .7-2% wasn't it? Where is it now?

That is also the whole point behind Obama's "oh woe is america, congress will fail gun control". He is aiming for a classic high, low, meet in the middle "compromise" foot in the door. After that, widening the wedge is only too easy as govt. has shown infinite times.

You are underestimating the importance of a weak and disarmed populace to a corrupt leadership. What did the british empire do in their conquered colonies / scotland? BAN PRIVATE ARMS. And you think the motive means less to them than some random war and bloodshed with cuba for absolutely no real reason?

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LMAO. May as well admit defeat now.

Him even saying that means he's preping people to explain why his new laws aren't going to go in effect.

Too funny he / others would set up this elaborate scheme just to concede with, "DAMN! WE FORGOT ABOUT CONGRESS!" LMAO.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2013...s-gun-control/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...e2a_story.html

http://news.yahoo.com/ap-sources-hou...-politics.html

Sure sounds like they've "given up".

Like I said, he's gunning for a "compromise", a foot in the door, and he'll probably get it. Probably a national database of every weapon in the country, profiling all lawful gun owners as "potential nuts" so to speak. Maybe with the assault weapons or some magazine capacity ban on top.

And the fact that it will be portrayed as a "compromise" will keep the people from suddenly bucking and chafing at the bridle.

Then when the very next time some guy is shot with anything more than a pellet in a country of 300 million, the paid news networks will go nuts for the next push, wiping another layer of guns from the database. This is how it has happened in many other countries. As if countries with gun control have no shootings or any less crime (actually they have exponentially higher rates of home robberies and break ins). Rinse and repeat, until people have nothing left but butter knives and .01 caliber single round pea shooters, and that only if you have a "threat on your person".
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:27 AM   #206 (permalink)
 
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:36 AM   #207 (permalink)
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4Chan's take on 9/11:

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Old 02-07-2013, 08:47 AM   #208 (permalink)
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4Chan's take on 9/11:

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Old 02-07-2013, 09:56 AM   #209 (permalink)
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Robbie Parker did not set up the fund/page either by the way, some friends of his (Alan Prothero and Brad Schultz...yes I know, even more conspirators along with the bank they used).

Rachel was a victim of the columbine shooting and the charity was opened by the parents, exactly what you asked for and now I fail?

The govt already has rules, regulations and taxes on guns so this isn't even a foot in the door, its just pushing it open (or closed rather) even more. I think most politicians are opportunistic and self-serving but not outright malicious towards US citizens.

The govt could have easily used any of the other recent shooting events to push the gun control issue if they are as manipulative as you believe with the media playing along with them. Why run the risk of creating your own event when one happening naturally is inevitable? The motive I think is something we don't agree on here.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:18 AM   #210 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Freiermuth View Post
Robbie Parker did not set up the fund/page either by the way, some friends of his (Alan Prothero and Brad Schultz...yes I know, even more conspirators along with the bank they used).

Rachel was a victim of the columbine shooting and the charity was opened by the parents, exactly what you asked for and now I fail?

The govt already has rules, regulations and taxes on guns so this isn't even a foot in the door, its just pushing it open (or closed rather) even more. I think most politicians are opportunistic and self-serving but not outright malicious towards US citizens.

The govt could have easily used any of the other recent shooting events to push the gun control issue if they are as manipulative as you believe with the media playing along with them. Why run the risk of creating your own event when one happening naturally is inevitable? The motive I think is something we don't agree on here.
His "friends" sheesh ok. I've never heard anyone setting up a charity for someone else's child's funeral ONE DAY after their child dies but whatever.

Also what does the bank have to do with it? They just open an account with Parker's consent so what, doesn't mean they have to be in on anything. Millions of people open accounts every day, it's not like the bank is going to keep tabs on what he spends it on if if he withdraws it.

You didn't address my main point about Rachel. The charity had nothing to do with funeral expenses or Rachel's family's expenses personally, it was for a CAUSE. It was set up A YEAR after the tragedy not THE NEXT DAY. Yes it completely fails.

What Robbie Parker is doing is something completely unheard of and unlikely for a grieving father or even his "friends" to do so soon after a child's loss. Go ahead, prove me wrong, give me an example of a real parallel like I asked.

There are no federal laws on guns. Taxes are not control, they do not impede on the real right to bear arms, and taxes have to be ratified by congress for every budget, laws stay forever unless repealed ... something MUCH harder to accomplish. Another failed comparison.

The govt. has tried using other recent shooting events to push the gun control agenda, didn't you watch the news after those events? Gun control was all over the place.

None of those other events would tilt the balance nearly as much as this horrific thing happening to ELEMENTARY SCHOOL KIDS. They are the most innocent of the innocent, and this would cross a barrier that would put even die hard 2nd Amendment defendants in a tough position.
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