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Old 04-17-2007, 05:16 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kodanshi
What a complete crock of shite. You really should make an effort to learn instead of spewing fountains of bullsh—! Pigs actually = Gentiles in Jewish teachings. As for Islam, God has simply forbidden muslims to eat pigs. People (especially Politically Correct ‘do–gooders’ who don’t bother to find out), tend to extend this to ridiculous levels and take it to mean that a muslim would feel offended by anything to do with pigs

As for the Holocaust, yes someone in Iran denies it, but so do many people in the West. No–one (especially in the West) teaches muslims that the holocaust = lies or anything, that comes from the idiotic anti–Islamic rhetoric taught about muslims (mainly by America).

And in Jewish terminology ‘holocaust’ simply refers to the animal consecrated to God in the form of a burnt offering, presumably why one poster here felt a little confused at the use of that word!
Hey man I'm sorry but what I hear over here is apparently different than what you hear in your country. I can't help that. If I'm wrong I will admit it but I made it clear from the start that I was just taking a wild guess based on what I know. What I know is that there are some people in the middle east who say that Jews are descendants of pigs. I've heard that several times. I'm sorry.

Give me some links where I can do some research and I would be glad too. But here in the states it's kind of hard to learn about Islam without any bias thrown in. I don't for one second believe that the majority of Muslims believe the same thing as Ahmadenijad says...I just think that the ones who DO believe him are doing more to influence western culture to be more Muslim-friendly. I'm sure most Muslims find THAT offensive more than a silly kid's story.

And I do have to disagree with one thing you said:

"No–one (especially in the West) teaches muslims that the holocaust = lies or anything, that comes from the idiotic anti–Islamic rhetoric taught about muslims (mainly by America)."

I'm pretty sure the president of Iran has *some* kind of influence on *some* of his people and I know for a fact he is a Holocaust-denier. (unless everything I've heard about him is all lies too, which is possible I guess, but I doubt it)

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Old 04-17-2007, 06:04 PM   #32 (permalink)
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This is ****ed.
Islam is seriously on the rise, and the whole world is scared of it. All this politically correct bullshit with being extra careful not to offend muslims because they'll kill our women and children if we do. Man is our world ever in some deep shit...
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Old 04-17-2007, 06:07 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Arrow

Ziauddin Sardar has written some great introductory books on Islam (as well as more advanced philosophical treatises), as well as books on science and the contribution of Islam to Western Civilisation:
No nonsense guide to Islam

and this unputdownable autobiography of parts of his life serves as a very good look at living the religion, complete with doubts and searching for truth:
Desperately Seeking Paradise.

Ahamadenijad may deny the Holocaust but, as I said, so do notorious Westerners. Freedom of speech, what? Didn’t the cartoon controversies in Denmark teach us that???

(And no, I don’t deny the Holocaust!)
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Old 04-17-2007, 06:10 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodanshi
Ziauddin Sardar has written some great introductory books on Islam (as well as more advanced philosophical treatises), as well as books on science and the contribution of Islam to Western Civilisation:
No nonsense guide to Islam

and this unputdownable autobiography of parts of his life serves as a very good look at living the religion, complete with doubts and searching for truth:
Desperately Seeking Paradise.


Ahamadenijad may deny the Holocaust but, as I said, so do notorious Westerners. Freedom of speech, what? Didn’t the cartoon controversies in Denmark teach us that???

(And no, I don’t deny the Holocaust!)
I actually wasn't aware of notorious Westerners denying it in recent times. Shows how much I know lol. I don't really do a whole lot of research on who denies it and who doesn't I just saw this headline on my favorite news site and found it surprising. I will definately check those links out when I get a chance. As long as they don't try and convert me (jokes)
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Old 04-17-2007, 06:16 PM   #35 (permalink)
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From the Qur’an itself: “There is no compulsion in religion, truth stands clear from error”. At any rate, if you seriously don’t believe in the Islamic view of things (or even religion at all), why would you fear an attempted conversion?

Incidentally, did you ever see British Psychological/Illusional/Neuro–Linguistic supremo Derren Brown’s show where he came to America and conned various groups of people? In one section he went amongst a group of atheists and ‘converted’ almost everyone in the room to Christianity simply by talking to them and touching some of them!

As for one specific recent case, some fat white guy from Britain (whose name escapes me) ended up imprisoned in Austria (I think) for denying the Holocaust.
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Old 04-17-2007, 08:37 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodanshi
From the Qur’an itself: “There is no compulsion in religion, truth stands clear from error”. At any rate, if you seriously don’t believe in the Islamic view of things (or even religion at all), why would you fear an attempted conversion?

Incidentally, did you ever see British Psychological/Illusional/Neuro–Linguistic supremo Derren Brown’s show where he came to America and conned various groups of people? In one section he went amongst a group of atheists and ‘converted’ almost everyone in the room to Christianity simply by talking to them and touching some of them!

As for one specific recent case, some fat white guy from Britain (whose name escapes me) ended up imprisoned in Austria (I think) for denying the Holocaust.

there are equally as ignorant statements in the Bible... all religion is self authoritative. if it wasn't, even ignorant people wouldn't be religious. i mean, of course it has to say that...
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Old 04-17-2007, 09:18 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodanshi
From the Qur’an itself: “There is no compulsion in religion, truth stands clear from error”. At any rate, if you seriously don’t believe in the Islamic view of things (or even religion at all), why would you fear an attempted conversion?

Incidentally, did you ever see British Psychological/Illusional/Neuro–Linguistic supremo Derren Brown’s show where he came to America and conned various groups of people? In one section he went amongst a group of atheists and ‘converted’ almost everyone in the room to Christianity simply by talking to them and touching some of them!

As for one specific recent case, some fat white guy from Britain (whose name escapes me) ended up imprisoned in Austria (I think) for denying the Holocaust.
I know man, I was just being sarcastic. I think those people you are talking about who convert people to Christianity just use a tactic that anyone can use. You can put faith in anything and truly believe it if you try hard enough. When they get touched I think he touches them a certain way to where it kind of tickles and they are also nervous by being in this situation and they probably get some kind of chill and that's when he tells them "that's god talking to you". And if they want to believe, they do. It's what happens when you feel like you are missing something in your life.

That's just my theory anyway.
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Old 04-17-2007, 09:30 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Old 04-18-2007, 06:53 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodanshi
What a complete crock of shite. You really should make an effort to learn instead of spewing fountains of bullsh—! Pigs actually = Gentiles in Jewish teachings. As for Islam, God has simply forbidden muslims to eat pigs. People (especially Politically Correct ‘do–gooders’ who don’t bother to find out), tend to extend this to ridiculous levels and take it to mean that a muslim would feel offended by anything to do with pigs

And in Jewish terminology ‘holocaust’ simply refers to the animal consecrated to God in the form of a burnt offering, presumably why one poster here felt a little confused at the use of that word!
since my english is not the best,i checked in my dictionary what gentiles was,it means גוי or לא יהודי
גוי=people who are not jewish,לא יהודי=none jewish
now,i dont get it,may be my dictinary is wrong,but we dont eat pork and other animals because they are not "kosher",you can read all about it here:Kashrut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and no,we dont refer to killing animals for god as holocaust,we call it מנחה לאל or הקרבה לאל
it may be writen as holocaust in the "english version"
as i said before,i didnt know the word because i never heard it before thats it
and i dont see the point of attacking WouldLuv2FightU like that,its not like you actualy live in israel and learned every thing from your jewish teachers now did you?
you just read it somewhere just like he did
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Old 04-18-2007, 06:48 PM   #40 (permalink)
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No, I researched it, I didn’t simply ‘read’ it and take on that view as my own. Remember the old days when only Jews lived in Jerusalem? They used to consecrate animals to God in the form of a burnt offering for Passover? In Hebrew you’d probably refer to it as Ha–Shoah or Qorban. I only meant that!

Let me give you a non–wiki source:
Non–wiki source on the kind of thing I meant by ‘holocaust’.
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