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Old 04-18-2007, 02:30 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by xbrokenshieldx
and for the record i think when he says easy access he isnt just talking about buying guns legally. i grew up in an urban area where some of my friends got involved in dealing and etc. it literally took them less than 24 hours to get a gun in some cases
My girlfriend and I were talking about this today. I told her this is the crap we need to get all the anti-gun folks to get the ball going again on getting guns banned. My self as a gun proud gun owner, would not give up my sks/Ak, or my concealed weapons permit, ect just because some person who wasnt even born in this country bought a 9mm an .22 then killed some people. You were given the right to bare arms not just to protect yourself, but to protect your from your own government. You want to give up your constitutional rights thats fine, but I'm not
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Old 04-18-2007, 02:36 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Josh3239
I still reject it. For example, if you are a felon you cannot legally own a gun, possess a gun (that includes any type of touching), buy a gun, sell a gun, hunt, etc, etc. Yet the problem with most violent crime is repeat offenders. How did mobsters continue to get guns despite they couldn't legally own guns? How do gang members in East LA get guns where they have felonys by the time they aren't even old enough to own a gun? As far as Prohibition goes. Prohibition on alcohol was a real success.. NOT, Prohibition on marijuana has been a real success.. NOT. If people want something bad enough they'll get it. If people want to do something bad enought, they'll do it.

What stricter regulations? Age limit, background check, criminals cannot own guns, must take a safety course, own a permit, etc? Of course it varies by state, but like (I think you) you said - the problem is criminal stealing guns. Then what good does stricter regulations do?
i definitely understand your points. However you cant really compare alcohol prohibition and MJ prohibition to gun prohibition. First of all, the US does not produce MJ and there can not regulate the amount of MJ being produced. Also, MJ is easily brought into our country via smuggling in bags in air ports and etc. those things that buzz off when you have keys in your pockets are actually meant to go off when there is a weapon. Sure people COULD potentially make firearms however it is much more difficult than growing MJ or making alcohol.

By stricter regulations i am referring to confiscating weapons illegally owned to get them off the streets. and heres the one that will most likely bust ur chops.. prohibiting the sale of hand guns. Criminals cant conceal hunting rifles in their wastes and use it to rob and kill a convenient store owner. however he can conceal hand guns.

yes i was the one that mentioned stealing weapons. The FBI reports that there are over 340,000 firearm thefts each year in the US. thats 340,000 guns bought legally that are now in the hands in criminals. therefore if we ban the sale of hand guns that is less hand guns that can be bought legally that can be stolen and used in violent crimes.

I dont think banning hand guns is too far of a compromise. People always say they want the right to own a firearm. well they can own a rifle. people say they want a gun for hunting. a rifle seems much more logical for hunting to me. people say they want a gun to protect themselves in their homes. a hunting rifle can protect you as well
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Old 04-18-2007, 02:40 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan
My girlfriend and I were talking about this today. I told her this is the crap we need to get all the anti-gun folks to get the ball going again on getting guns banned. My self as a gun proud gun owner, would not give up my sks/Ak, or my concealed weapons permit, ect just because some person who wasnt even born in this country bought a 9mm an .22 then killed some people. You were given the right to bare arms not just to protect yourself, but to protect your from your own government. You want to give up your constitutional rights thats fine, but I'm not
actually your "constitutional right" all depends on how you read the second amendment.

the second amendment doesnt say "the right to bear arms" cut and dry. what it really says is "A WELL REGULATED MILITIA, BEING NECESSARY FOR THE SECURITY OF A FREE STATE, the right to bear arms shall not be infringed"

the second amendment does not say someone has the right to own a fire arm for personal use. it was written and adopted not long after the REv. war when our country did not have a strong or powerful military to protect us from England, France etc. at that time it was necessary for our freedom to have guns. we now have arguably the strongest military in the world. so is it necessary for the security of our free state that you have the right to bear arms?
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Old 04-18-2007, 03:59 AM   #24 (permalink)
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an armed society is a free society.
If you want to live in tyranny i'm sure there are places you can go. Here in the US we a little thing called the constituation. Once you start giving your rights away you never get them back. Also, I sure Nazi Germany was quite safe
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Old 04-18-2007, 07:44 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I'm agreeing with brokenshield AND josh at the same time. I think you guys are doing the same thing. I think I may have a better answer...

Let's say that making all guns completely illegal will do 2 things:

-It will cut down on what we now know as everyday normal gun crimes, such as possession, concealing without a permit, armed robbery, aggravated assault, etc.

-But it will also raise the likelyhood of shooting sprees. While it may cut down on relatively minor gun crimes like the afformentioned, because the reason they happen now is because guns are legal and are easy to get a hold of. BUT, if guns were illegal, then the only guys carrying guns eventually (after everyone adapts to the new law, because obviously there will be a good 10-20 year period of people still owning guns, but hiding them), would be pscychos like this VT guy. Those are the guys who are going to find a gun no matter what because they intend to get caught or just kill themselves anyway, so what do they have to lose? So they will get the guns, while the general public and the would-be criminals are all f*cked.

The rate of psycho killing sprees will raise, because the pyschos don't give a ****, they'll find a gun no matter what, and with them knowing that they don't have to worry about getting shot back at, it will just help encourage them to finally say "ok, I'm gonna go kill a bunch of people now". Killing spree rates will rise, and so will the number of casualties, per spree.

Make sense?

Last edited by WouldLuv2FightU : 04-18-2007 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 04-18-2007, 02:27 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WouldLuv2FightU
I'm agreeing with brokenshield AND josh at the same time. I think you guys are doing the same thing. I think I may have a better answer...

Let's say that making all guns completely illegal will do 2 things:

-It will cut down on what we now know as everyday normal gun crimes, such as possession, concealing without a permit, armed robbery, aggravated assault, etc.

-But it will also raise the likelyhood of shooting sprees. While it may cut down on relatively minor gun crimes like the afformentioned, because the reason they happen now is because guns are legal and are easy to get a hold of. BUT, if guns were illegal, then the only guys carrying guns eventually (after everyone adapts to the new law, because obviously there will be a good 10-20 year period of people still owning guns, but hiding them), would be pscychos like this VT guy. Those are the guys who are going to find a gun no matter what because they intend to get caught or just kill themselves anyway, so what do they have to lose? So they will get the guns, while the general public and the would-be criminals are all f*cked.

The rate of psycho killing sprees will raise, because the pyschos don't give a ****, they'll find a gun no matter what, and with them knowing that they don't have to worry about getting shot back at, it will just help encourage them to finally say "ok, I'm gonna go kill a bunch of people now". Killing spree rates will rise, and so will the number of casualties, per spree.

Make sense?
i kinda get what your saying however disagree. the VT shooter bought his gun legally so i get urpoint but the example doesnt work.

however if there were more regulations on guns it wouldnt cause more people to be psycho. if someone is crazy and wants to shoot a place up he will do it. if we had stricter gun laws someones not gonna snap because of it and kill people.

I am not saying we should completely outlaw guns but something needs to be done. the vt guy had got the cops called on him 2 or 3 times for stalking.. and he purchased a gun. i think doing anything would help. i an personally in favor of banning the sale of hand guns. but even if we had stricter background checks, polygraph tests MMPI tests or something for people who are trying to buy guns then maybe it could save some lives
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Old 04-18-2007, 04:42 PM   #27 (permalink)
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i'll tell you one thing... as soon as the government tells Americans they can no longer buy and own guns, i'm moving the **** out. that's the first step towards tyranny and oppression. and it's not like banning guns won't just create an even bigger black market. look what prohibition did...

banning shit just makes it more desirable and lucrative.
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Old 04-18-2007, 06:13 PM   #28 (permalink)
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So the papers, and news items have not mentioned the gunman in an Islamic context at all. Hmmm… Some people immeditately jumping to the most bizarre conclusions vilifying whatever they dislike and fear themselves.

Nice…
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Old 04-18-2007, 06:23 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pt447
i'll tell you one thing... as soon as the government tells Americans they can no longer buy and own guns, i'm moving the **** out. that's the first step towards tyranny and oppression. and it's not like banning guns won't just create an even bigger black market. look what prohibition did...

banning shit just makes it more desirable and lucrative.
MAny european countries have strict gun laws.. are they a tyrannical society?

Canada has strict gun laws.. are they a tyrranical society?

no
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Old 04-18-2007, 07:33 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbrokenshieldx
i kinda get what your saying however disagree. the VT shooter bought his gun legally so i get urpoint but the example doesnt work.

however if there were more regulations on guns it wouldnt cause more people to be psycho. if someone is crazy and wants to shoot a place up he will do it. if we had stricter gun laws someones not gonna snap because of it and kill people.

I am not saying we should completely outlaw guns but something needs to be done. the vt guy had got the cops called on him 2 or 3 times for stalking.. and he purchased a gun. i think doing anything would help. i an personally in favor of banning the sale of hand guns. but even if we had stricter background checks, polygraph tests MMPI tests or something for people who are trying to buy guns then maybe it could save some lives
I agree, and the VT guy bought the gun legally because he could. If it were illegal he would have found one eventually anyway. Something does need to be done that's for sure.
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