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post #111 of 120 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 02:43 PM
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I have a question, Cowgirl. First let me preface it. I have not spent a significant amount of time around transgendered people of any persuasion - barring one transgendered man/woman (I'm really not sure which direction they were heading or on which side they started) who seemed to hate me simply because I was straight and had no sexual identity issues. I don't really hold that case as educational. But I have since my crippling managed to gain a bachelor's in Psychology for Forensic Human Behavior Studies. Which, admittedly, is mostly body language, syntax, and psychobabble but it has left me a question after reading up on transgender issues.

Most transpeople say that they never felt male or female. What exactly do they mean by that? I've never woken up and felt male. I just feel like me. Which is usually achey and more than a little angry about something but my sex doesn't really feel like a palpable presence in my mind.

And if you don't want to answer in open forum feel free to pm me or even just to tell me to ****er off if you don't want to try explaining. I'm cool either way.
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post #112 of 120 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 02:54 PM
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Great question deadman

To answer your question, dead, it is rather complex. The notion of not feeling like a man or a woman, at its core stems from gender dysphoria. Take me for example, because I hated my male body, it made me a lot more aware that I didn't feel like a man. Since most people don't suffer from gender dysphoria, they probably don't think of their sexual identity as a big deal, because they are ok with their body.
I am aware of the actual conditions (gender dysphoria and GID) involved and the technical definitions. The problem is that those are very clinical. They are a set of symptoms coupled with vague reasoning as to why. It doesn't help me to understand.

Specifically the bolded part is what confuses me. To my way of thinking - which admittedly is only vaguely close to what most people would consider sane on the best of days - this is the same as waking up and hating the fact that you have arms. I do understand hating aspects of your body as I have a rather rare genetic condition that contributed to my crippling but I can't quite wrap my head around hating your sexual identity.

In my development I have never undergone sexual confusion or a sense of gender dysphoria. I had other issues. Mostly anger related. So this line of thought is just alien to me and I'm trying hard to fully understand. Hopefully I am doing so in a respectful manner. I'll be honest. Tact is not my strong suit.

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post #113 of 120 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 03:52 PM
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I am aware of the actual conditions (gender dysphoria and GID) involved and the technical definitions. The problem is that those are very clinical. They are a set of symptoms coupled with vague reasoning as to why. It doesn't help me to understand.

Specifically the bolded part is what confuses me. To my way of thinking - which admittedly is only vaguely close to what most people would consider sane on the best of days - this is the same as waking up and hating the fact that you have arms. I do understand hating aspects of your body as I have a rather rare genetic condition that contributed to my crippling but I can't quite wrap my head around hating your sexual identity.

In my development I have never undergone sexual confusion or a sense of gender dysphoria. I had other issues. Mostly anger related. So this line of thought is just alien to me and I'm trying hard to fully understand. Hopefully I am doing so in a respectful manner. I'll be honest. Tact is not my strong suit.
A part of me knew while I was writing that, that it probably wouldn't be sufficient as an explanation. I guess that's what I get for trying to answer while still not all there Now I'll try to answer better.

It's not really like hating your arms, or any particular part of your body, it's much more than that. Honestly, for me to sit here and try to explain it, I probably wouldn't be able to do it justice. Yes, I've gone through it and experienced it first hand, but it's so hard to accurately explain. I definitely am not a wiz at the science of it all. The reason it's different than hating your arms or your legs or anything like that is because it's literally the body itself, every masculine thing about it drove me nuts. I'm sorry dead, if you were looking for a scientific explanation, I'm unable to deliver that at this time. Maybe I'll make that my next blog post though.

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post #114 of 120 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 03:57 PM
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Actually I'm not looking for the scientific explanation. I know that one. I'm looking for an explanation or an evocation of the experience itself. I know the technicalities - what I'm trying to understand is the feeling behind them. It's the difference between knowing that something hurts and understanding how it hurts.

Does that make sense?

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post #115 of 120 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 02:54 AM
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Actually I'm not looking for the scientific explanation. I know that one. I'm looking for an explanation or an evocation of the experience itself. I know the technicalities - what I'm trying to understand is the feeling behind them. It's the difference between knowing that something hurts and understanding how it hurts.

Does that make sense?
Alright, third time is the charm right? Let's try this again

Experiencing gender dysphoria and GID.

In everyday life in a male body, I had anywhere from a minute to two minutes of peace everyday. That time came in that blissful period of daze when you first wake up, before you become fully aware for the day. Every time I had to look in the mirror and see my masculine face, it made me very sad, I was looking at a person who didn't look at all like how I felt. Showering was absolutely hell for me, having to acknowledge exactly how masculine my body was just killed me, I died a little inside each time. Even beyond a physical aspect, interacting with other people was a painful experience for me too, the whole pronoun thing used to really get to me. I mean, I know plenty of non trans people who, like you, don't view their sexual identity as a cohesive thought. Nowadays I really don't either, but when I felt I didn't match, it was on my mind all the time. If anyone wants further details, my inbox is ready to receive your messages or I could do a blog post on it if anyone is interested in reading in depth.

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post #116 of 120 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 05:11 AM
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Hmmm... I think I understand. Let me see if I am coherent enough to express my thoughts with anything resembling order and sense.

It seems to me to be similar to suffer a permanent, crippling injury. Say your back. With a normally functioning back you don't think about it everyday. You don't have to because everything is fine. It is as it should be. But injure that back and suddenly you think about it all the time because everything you do is affected by it. The wrongness taints everything by it's presence.

Is that close? Or has sleep deprivation completely destroyed my cognitive faculties?

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post #117 of 120 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 10:03 AM
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Hmmm... I think I understand. Let me see if I am coherent enough to express my thoughts with anything resembling order and sense.

It seems to me to be similar to suffer a permanent, crippling injury. Say your back. With a normally functioning back you don't think about it everyday. You don't have to because everything is fine. It is as it should be. But injure that back and suddenly you think about it all the time because everything you do is affected by it. The wrongness taints everything by it's presence.

Is that close? Or has sleep deprivation completely destroyed my cognitive faculties?
That's a great way to describe it actually

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post #118 of 120 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 04:40 PM
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Awesome. I love understanding new things.

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post #119 of 120 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 04:47 PM
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Awesome. I love understanding new things.
That's the great thing about knowing people who are trans and don't resent you for your lack of sexual identity issues I'm here all the time for anyone who has any questions. I'm also really happy that this thread appears to have run its course and maintained a respect level that was absent in the others, so thank you all

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post #120 of 120 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 08:38 PM
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It's surprising how civil things can be and the things you can learn when idiots aren't involved.

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