Building the next great war - Page 2 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
The Lounge General off topic chat.

Reply

Old 06-04-2007, 01:25 AM   #11 (permalink)
Free Thinker
 
pt447's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In your closet!
Posts: 5,673
Blog Entries: 1
pt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level now
i forgot to comment on the debate question.

short answer, no. but only because they tend to fall on nights where i'm busy. like tonight; i had a wedding to go to. i do want to watch them, but what's the point really? they're substance free, void of any true issues, and are nothing more than bad platforms from which to express policy intention and views on important matters.

i forgot who, but i recently heard someone call for the presidential debates of the Lincoln era. essentially, once the dem and repub candidates are chosen, they must participate in at least one debate a week, up until the election. Each debate would cover only one topic, and in this way, force the candidates to actually talk about things.

instead of commercials, sound bites, and mudslinging.

the problem with this country is that nobody actually wants to hear what the candidates have to say. we much rather read a quick headline and form an opinion, than sit and listen to the people fighting for our votes, discuss things that will actually influence the American people's lives.

nobody gives a shit anymore, and forcing the candidates into weekly, substantive debates is the only way back.

of course, they'll never agree to it, and the media doesn't want it cause it'd be too hard for these journalistic charletons to handle...
__________________
whiskey, racism, money, grease, twinkie's, guns.....yep lol thats about it

http://www.watchblog.com/

http://www.xanga.com/mfalino
pt447 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 06-04-2007, 02:43 AM   #12 (permalink)
Bantamweight
 
Josh3239's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: People's Republic of Kalifornia
Posts: 799
Josh3239 is on a distinguished roadJosh3239 is on a distinguished roadJosh3239 is on a distinguished roadJosh3239 is on a distinguished road
Pt447, that is all good and true but I think its fair to say that this country was pretty much an experiment, something never done before. But we have to accept that religion (plus much more) equals morals, values, and beliefs. The idea of having a democracy without religious influence just isn't gonna happen. Our candidates are influenced by religion and the voters are. I guess what I am trying to say is that separation of church and state does exist but only to a certain extend and GWB isn't the only person who thinks like that, he won't be the last, and he certainly isn't our worst.

Plazzman, in a way that responsiblity fell into our lap when we became the only superpower left. That and the fact that our nation is so strong that we can make a difference in the world and we use it to push a pro-democracy foreign policy, which is why (1 of the many) we have such a poor relationship with S. E. Asia, Africa, and the Middle East.

As far as UN goes, they are corrupt and don't make the world any better.

Africa gets treated the way they do because of their terrible human rights violations and whenever we try to help we get shot at. The Middle East is the same except a few of those nations state-sponsor terror. S E Asia also treats their people like crap. And none of these nations are democratic. For the most part they are war torn and backwards.
Josh3239 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2007, 08:00 AM   #13 (permalink)
Free Thinker
 
pt447's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In your closet!
Posts: 5,673
Blog Entries: 1
pt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh3239
Pt447, that is all good and true but I think its fair to say that this country was pretty much an experiment, something never done before. But we have to accept that religion (plus much more) equals morals, values, and beliefs. The idea of having a democracy without religious influence just isn't gonna happen. Our candidates are influenced by religion and the voters are. I guess what I am trying to say is that separation of church and state does exist but only to a certain extend and GWB isn't the only person who thinks like that, he won't be the last, and he certainly isn't our worst.

Plazzman, in a way that responsiblity fell into our lap when we became the only superpower left. That and the fact that our nation is so strong that we can make a difference in the world and we use it to push a pro-democracy foreign policy, which is why (1 of the many) we have such a poor relationship with S. E. Asia, Africa, and the Middle East.

As far as UN goes, they are corrupt and don't make the world any better.

Africa gets treated the way they do because of their terrible human rights violations and whenever we try to help we get shot at. The Middle East is the same except a few of those nations state-sponsor terror. S E Asia also treats their people like crap. And none of these nations are democratic. For the most part they are war torn and backwards.
religion only equals values onto those people allwoed by old dusty books. religion is diametricaly opposed to change and growth, something that a country needs to move on and become something better. yes we were an experiment, but what do you mean by that? we have failed only because we haven't lived up to the founders ideals. we have allowed complacency, hate and fear to rule our lives instead of using our intellect and reason to move on from chains of oppression, religion and dogma.

and again, this isn't a christian nation, so we shouldn't live under christian law!

as far as how strong we are... when was the last time America did anything worthwile in the world? something actually, genuenlly good? pick your examples carefully because i'm pretty sure most of the ones you'd think of aren't so.

this thread is moving in an interesting way, by the way, could get very interesting...
__________________
whiskey, racism, money, grease, twinkie's, guns.....yep lol thats about it

http://www.watchblog.com/

http://www.xanga.com/mfalino
pt447 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2007, 08:07 PM   #14 (permalink)
Free Thinker
 
pt447's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In your closet!
Posts: 5,673
Blog Entries: 1
pt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level now
Just for Sh*ts and giggles, i was reading through the constitution--yeah, someone actually does--and came across this little juicy bit of info...

Article VI

All debts contracted and engagements entered into, before the adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

LII: Constitution

the area of my attention is the second paragraph. It says, expressly, that no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

Now, image for one second, what would happen if a newly elected Senator or Congress, or any other Government official requiring some measure of pomp and circumstance in their inaguration, would refuse to swear upon the Bible--or their own holy book, like it matters--upon taking their oath of office? Would them immidetly be stricken from the room, unable to take their elected--or aoopointed--office?

The point I'm trying to make, is that we already have a grevious breech of Church/State sepparation infesting our government. One that we're used to. They stopped the requirment of whitnesses swearing on Bibles in court, so why not for offices of government?

By the way, a discussion of Faith & politics is on CNN now. very interesting. John Edwards just said, on the record that his personal beliefs, and anyone elses, should not influence broad public policy!

Unfortunately, he was just asked if when he prays, how can he tell the difference between his voice, and the voice of God. Unsurprisingly, he only recounted his belief in prayer and its place in his day, but he didn't answer whether or not the voice he hears in his head is his conscience, or one of the other personalities intruding on his consciousness. interesting...
__________________
whiskey, racism, money, grease, twinkie's, guns.....yep lol thats about it

http://www.watchblog.com/

http://www.xanga.com/mfalino

Last edited by pt447 : 06-04-2007 at 08:14 PM.
pt447 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2007, 08:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
Free Thinker
 
pt447's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In your closet!
Posts: 5,673
Blog Entries: 1
pt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level now
this actually turned out less extatic than i thought it would. Edwards and Obama made it clear they're not for personal religion in politics, policy wise... but, i still don't think it helped much..
__________________
whiskey, racism, money, grease, twinkie's, guns.....yep lol thats about it

http://www.watchblog.com/

http://www.xanga.com/mfalino

Last edited by pt447 : 06-04-2007 at 11:21 PM.
pt447 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2007, 01:18 AM   #16 (permalink)
Lightweight
 
liveson777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,749
liveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really nice
this is a christian nation check it out of you dare lol i know this is gonna tick you off ... but this is a christian nation and that wont change

The US is a Christian Nation

America is largely a Christian nation, from Life in the USA: The Complete Guide for Immigrants and Americans
__________________
My Top 10:
Fedor
Henderson
GSP
Lyoto Machida
Aleks E
Josh Barnett
Big Nog
BJ Penn
Anderson Silva
Cro Cop Musosi and bada hari

Last edited by liveson777 : 06-05-2007 at 01:20 AM.
liveson777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2007, 01:26 AM   #17 (permalink)
Free Thinker
 
pt447's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In your closet!
Posts: 5,673
Blog Entries: 1
pt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level now
Quote:
Originally Posted by liveson777
this is a christian nation check it out of you dare lol i know this is gonna tick you off ... but this is a christian nation and that wont change

The US is a Christian Nation

America is largely a Christian nation, from Life in the USA: The Complete Guide for Immigrants and Americans
no matter what anyone says, there is no mention of christianity being America's official language and guide to policy anywhere in our founding documents... period...


and besides, just because one ruling was handed down, doesn't mean it is official. it isn't in the constitution. besides, the federal government was only intended to protect the states, and falicitate trade, as well as protect from within, not mandate belief onto the people of the states. this is a United States of America, not one nation-state.

ARTICLE VI of the U.S. Constitution says;

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

no test of faith is required to hold office. If it were a Christian Nation, then in the contsitution, it would provide for a swearing of allegience to Christianity as a requirement for office.

The point is that despite what many people want, this is not a Nation ruled by one religion. it was inteded as a place free from religious tryany. Instead, the founders wanted a place for religious proliferation in unity. THey were men of the enlightenment, and would not--in fact did not--build a democratic nation under the laws of one Ruling religion. read their work, none of them advocated religion. THey inteded this country, in their very writing, as secular in government. that doesn't mean anti-religious, jsut that religion would have no place in policy. If you put even one religions beliefs behind policy, then you are infringing on the validity of every other.

You can spout Evangelical, Christian Nationalist propoganda all you want, but reading the Constitution, as well as familiarizing yourself with the writings of our founding fathers will show you beyond a shadow of a doubt what they inteded for this country!
__________________
whiskey, racism, money, grease, twinkie's, guns.....yep lol thats about it

http://www.watchblog.com/

http://www.xanga.com/mfalino

Last edited by pt447 : 06-05-2007 at 01:31 AM.
pt447 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2007, 01:26 AM   #18 (permalink)
Lightweight
 
liveson777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,749
liveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really niceliveson777 is just really nice
Well when the president is a Christian then it really dosnt matter...

wish you wouldnt had edited that in... but regardless wut you want to call it christian propaganda u just dont understand christanity..... i could easly say tthat about 9/10 thing u post on here... and if that wuts in the constitution then im all for it but USA will always be a Christian nation no matter how u slice it
__________________
My Top 10:
Fedor
Henderson
GSP
Lyoto Machida
Aleks E
Josh Barnett
Big Nog
BJ Penn
Anderson Silva
Cro Cop Musosi and bada hari

Last edited by liveson777 : 06-05-2007 at 01:47 AM.
liveson777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2007, 07:55 AM   #19 (permalink)
Free Thinker
 
pt447's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In your closet!
Posts: 5,673
Blog Entries: 1
pt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level nowpt447 is on another level now
Quote:
Originally Posted by liveson777
Well when the president is a Christian then it really dosnt matter...

wish you wouldnt had edited that in... but regardless wut you want to call it christian propaganda u just dont understand christanity..... i could easly say tthat about 9/10 thing u post on here... and if that wuts in the constitution then im all for it but USA will always be a Christian nation no matter how u slice it
that's just not true. it was written that all religions would be equal and protected. just becuase the majority of people in this country are christian, doesn't mean that the Nation itself is Christian, or holds any special interest in Christianity. If we area run with Christian intentions, it is becuase people have hijacked the country, and because too many who oppose this takeover have fell silent and stood by to watch it happen.

Unfortunetly, untill this country wakes up, we'll be overrun by Christian "values", which is sad because Christianity is in diametric opposition to the princiiples this country was founded on.

Also, don't think i'm attemtping to convince you of anything. it seems you have been brought up quite religious, and because of that your views and ability to see things "out of your box" are basically non existant. your worldview is shaped by your belief. It is too late. We will never agree on matters of relgion because you are a person of Faith and i am a person of Reason. By the way, if you're truly proud of your faith, that statement wouldn't offend you!
__________________
whiskey, racism, money, grease, twinkie's, guns.....yep lol thats about it

http://www.watchblog.com/

http://www.xanga.com/mfalino

Last edited by pt447 : 06-05-2007 at 07:58 AM.
pt447 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2007, 09:23 AM   #20 (permalink)
Curitiba Food and Liquor
 
swpthleg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 16,164
Blog Entries: 14
swpthleg Is Beyond A Rankings Systemswpthleg Is Beyond A Rankings Systemswpthleg Is Beyond A Rankings Systemswpthleg Is Beyond A Rankings Systemswpthleg Is Beyond A Rankings Systemswpthleg Is Beyond A Rankings Systemswpthleg Is Beyond A Rankings Systemswpthleg Is Beyond A Rankings Systemswpthleg Is Beyond A Rankings Systemswpthleg Is Beyond A Rankings Systemswpthleg Is Beyond A Rankings System
indeed the idea that we are a christian nation is inaccurate. For a leader to base major decisions on that assumption is dangerous.

as former head of the FSB (KGB) Putin is far smarter than Bush, I guarantee, surrounded by far smarter people than the Bush cabinet and advisors, and he may just be blowing smoke (he is a politician after all) but the U.S. would be making a grave mistake to f**k with federatsiya russkaya.
swpthleg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
Powered by vBulletin Copyright 2000-2009 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios