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post #21 of 234 (permalink) Old 07-31-2008, 03:38 PM
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Nah, I see this too often, particularly in reaction to child abuse cases. It really gets on my nerves.
So just out of curiousty, do you feel compassion for these people that are getting the "lynch Mob" treatment???

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post #22 of 234 (permalink) Old 07-31-2008, 03:47 PM
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f he were a schizophrenic, he wouldn't have been so calm and methodical. He'd be losing his f*cking mind. So that's out.
lol, stereotypes ftw! I'm gonna go right ahead and presume right now that I both know much, much more about the disease of scizophrenia than you and have 100% more real life experience dealing with people with this condition than you do.

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So just out of curiousty, do you feel compassion for these people that are getting the "lynch Mob" treatment???
No, compassion definitely not. I simply maintain my belief that the role of the justice system in any society is the protection of that society and that punishment not only has no place but is actually counter-productive if anything when looking at these sort of situations.
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post #23 of 234 (permalink) Old 07-31-2008, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
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Befitting? No, I don't believe any "punishment" fits any crome to be honest.
Yet you're trying to justify a reason a person would brutally murder someone else? Murder is murder, I don't care if you're insane or not.


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I just stated I din't really have a problem with that statement, and it was more the other two.
Then what was the point in highlighting my quote at all?


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In reaction to all parts inclusive of this all I can really ask is what are you, ******* stupid?
Now this is ironic. You've been claiming that you belong to Club Rationale, and you are the one "over-reacting" by suggesting that I'm "******** stupid" because I disagree with you.

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Have you ever had to deal with people with serious mental health problems at anypoint in your life?
No, fortunately. However, I didn't condemn this man for possibly being mentally ill. There are specific ways individuals like this are supposed to be handled within society, they're not supposed to freely wander around and commit acts like this with the "Oh but I'm not well" excuse as a free card out of disciplinary retaliation.

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All anyone here can do is speculate at the moment. Thinking rationally, the guy who carried out these acts in this manne is almost definately suffering from some pretty severe mental health issues.
Which is still not justifiable for the act he committed.

Last edited by Fedor>all; 07-31-2008 at 03:53 PM.
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post #24 of 234 (permalink) Old 07-31-2008, 03:53 PM
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f he were a schizophrenic, he wouldn't have been so calm and methodical. He'd be losing his f*cking mind. So that's out. He most likely is a sociopath and thus has no sense of right and wrong. Killing people just seems to be not that important to him.
Or he could be a sadist or obsessionist. In which case he was raised around violence and views it as a way to show love. Doubtful since that is usually directed towards children and people of the opposite sex.

I am kind of on the side with Neg here, because this guy is clearly not stable mentally. There is nothing that will exccuse an act like this, but many things that will explain it. I certainly don't think killing him will solve anything other then a personal feeling of revenge the family members or other passengers might want (they will likely find out that didn't help though). I think understanding him would be better for all people involved.

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post #25 of 234 (permalink) Old 07-31-2008, 03:55 PM
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Yet you're trying to justify a reason a person would brutally murder someone else? Murder is murder, I don't care if you're insane or not..
Then, you are an idiot.




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Then what was the point in highlighting my quote at all?
I guess there really wasn't one.



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Now this is ironic. You've been claiming that you belong to Club Rational, and you are the one "over-reacting" by suggesting that I'm "******** stupid".
What irrational or overly reactionary about that? I'm sure most people who knew anything about people with mental health problems would agree with me. The *******? Cursing for me isn't an expression of anger or contempt, it's really about emphasis.

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No, fortunately. However, I didn't condemn this man for possibly being mentally ill. There are specific ways individuals like this are supposed to be handled within society, they're not supposed to freely wander around and commit acts like this with the "Oh but I'm not well" excuse as a free card out of discipline.
Ah, so it is societies fault for failing to properly handle this man? We agree for once!



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Which is still not justifiable for the act he committed.
I can't think of a much better excuse than aperson not being in control of their mind, seeing as how that sort of controls our actions.
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post #26 of 234 (permalink) Old 07-31-2008, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
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Or he could be a sadist or obsessionist. In which case he was raised around violence and views it as a way to show love. Doubtful since that is usually directed towards children and people of the opposite sex.

I am kind of on the side with Neg here, because this guy is clearly not stable mentally. There is nothing that will exccuse an act like this, but many things that will explain it. I certainly don't think killing him will solve anything other then a personal feeling of revenge the family members or other passengers might want (they will likely find out that didn't help though). I think understanding him would be better for all people involved.
I get what you're saying, but when I hear Neg use words like "justify" or "excusable" (not sure if he used this one), I can only shake my head in bewilderment. No matter how you look at this act, it's neither of those two things. Sure, there may be a reason this happened, but there certainly was no reason involved.
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post #27 of 234 (permalink) Old 07-31-2008, 03:57 PM
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lol, stereotypes ftw! I'm gonna go right ahead and presume right now that I both know much, much more about the disease of scizophrenia than you and have 100% more real life experience dealing with people with this condition than you do.
You can presume that, but you would be incorrect in doing so.


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No, compassion definitely not. I simply maintain my belief that the role of the justice system in any society is the protection of that society and that punishment not only has no place but is actually counter-productive if anything when looking at these sort of situations.
Well, by definition punishment is meant to decrease a certain aversive behavior, so punishment kind of does have a place in society, just not in this case. In this case, there is nothing anyone can do. Lock him up and keep him away from other people for the rest of his life.
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post #28 of 234 (permalink) Old 07-31-2008, 03:57 PM
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Yet you're trying to justify a reason a person would brutally murder someone else? Murder is murder, I don't care if you're insane or not.
I don't think he is justifying it at all, just tryiing to explain it and he is condemning those that think murdering him is the right answer.


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No, fortunately. However, I didn't condemn this man for possibly being mentally ill. There are specific ways individuals like this are supposed to be handled within society, they're not supposed to freely wander around and commit acts like this with the "Oh but I'm not well" excuse as a free card out of disciplinary retaliation.
I know people with any mental disease do not pre-meditate their murders with the idea that they are ill as an excuse. And even if they did, they still would be sentenced to a life behind bars. They would just be in a hospital instead of a traditional prison.

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post #29 of 234 (permalink) Old 07-31-2008, 03:58 PM
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lol, stereotypes ftw! I'm gonna go right ahead and presume right now that I both know much, much more about the disease of scizophrenia than you and have 100% more real life experience dealing with people with this condition than you do.
I'm not even going to atempt to deal with this statement. That's too much like having an arguement with a zoo keeper about a bear eating your brother. Either way, your brother got eaten by a bear.



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No, compassion definitely not. I simply maintain my belief that the role of the justice system in any society is the protection of that society and that punishment not only has no place but is actually counter-productive if anything when looking at these sort of situations.

Well that is just a very sad state of affairs. Here's the thing that you have to realize, society is not about having certain people treated fairly, it's about making it where people are able to live their lives without the fear of this kind of thing happening. Punishment isn't meant to "Treat" the offender, it's meant to protect the innocent.

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post #30 of 234 (permalink) Old 07-31-2008, 04:01 PM
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You can presume that, but you would be incorrect in doing so.
A member of your immediate family suffers from paranoid scizophrenia do they?
Your comment was completely ignorant and based on the stereotypically view of people who suffer from schizophrenia, I still think you don't have a clue what you are talking about.


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Well, by definition punishment is meant to decrease a certain aversive behavior, so punishment kind of does have a place in society, just not in this case. In this case, there is nothing anyone can do. Lock him up and keep him away from other people for the rest of his life.
It does, but not in the way a lot of people would think of it.

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I'm not even going to atempt to deal with this statement. That's too much like having an arguement with a zoo keeper about a bear eating your brother. Either way, your brother got eaten by a bear.
How does that analogy make any sense? Wawa was dismissing the idea that this man could be suffering from schizophrenia based on...well, nothing grounded in fact really.





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Well that is just a very sad state of affairs. Here's the thing that you have to realize, society is not about having certain people treated fairly, it's about making it where people are able to live their lives without the fear of this kind of thing happening. Punishment isn't meant to "Treat" the offender, it's meant to protect the innocent.
What are you even talking about? I'm all for the protection of the innocent, didn't you gather that from my post?
I'm against "punishment" such as locking people up in terrible conditions and the death penalty.

Last edited by TheNegation; 07-31-2008 at 04:09 PM.
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