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Old 03-15-2009, 05:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:38 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I was their for the hurricane.

The government didn't screw up. People are just stupid down there. lol. This is how the dialog between local government and the "victims" went:

Everybody was like "Whatever, it's gonna miss us"

And all the officials were like "GTFO of here, it's not safe!"

"Nah, we'll be fine."

"No, get the f#@k out of town! There is NOWHERE in New Orleans that is safe! In fact, we're not even going to call the superdome a shelter! Because we don't want to call it something that indicates that it is safe."

"You're exaggerating."

"No we're not! If you stay, it will likely take us THREE DAYS or more before we can get you out!"

"Whatever."

...........

24 hours later:
"Heeeeeeeelp! Why didn't anybody warn us! Look! A military chopper bringing supplies and transport... Shoot at it!"


No crap, man. I lived there during the whole thing. The version of the story that the national media decided to adopt is NOT how it went down.
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:05 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Interesting. I just watched that Spike Lee documentary about it, and yea they were given time to leave (even a mandatory evac) but a lot of the really poor people seemed unable to do so. Many didn't have cars or the money to travel away.

This is for sociology so I have to look at the racial, social, and environmental aspects of the incident.

Looking past whether the people should have left, it still remains that the relief efforts (with the exception of the Coast Guard who took the initiative and even overworked their personnel) were too slow and hung up on all kinds of political bs. On every level of the government there were big mistakes and afterward they just blamed in on each other. The mayor was scared to use a parking lot full of school busses to export citizens because he was worried about lack of insurance liability. Governor Blanco admitted she should have called for more National Guard troops sooner, but she was tied down by lack of approval from the higher ups. FEMA had shitty intel and was extremely unorganized, and Michael Brown was underqualified for the job to begin with. Chertoff hesitated to take action and declare Katrina an incident of national significance, and Bush made things more complicated by putting FEMA in charge. He also denied relief efforts that other countries such as Venezuela, France, Russia, Germany, Sweden and the Netherlands, instead saying that they could send money if they wanted to help.

Well thanks for getting my paper started, if you have any complaints or disagreements with my points then please tell me now because I'm about to knock this sucker down.
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Interesting. I just watched that Spike Lee documentary about it, and yea they were given time to leave (even a mandatory evac) but a lot of the really poor people seemed unable to do so. Many didn't have cars or the money to travel away.

This is for sociology so I have to look at the racial, social, and environmental aspects of the incident.

Looking past whether the people should have left, it still remains that the relief efforts (with the exception of the Coast Guard who took the initiative and even overworked their personnel) were too slow and hung up on all kinds of political bs. On every level of the government there were big mistakes and afterward they just blamed in on each other. The mayor was scared to use a parking lot full of school busses to export citizens because he was worried about lack of insurance liability. Governor Blanco admitted she should have called for more National Guard troops sooner, but she was tied down by lack of approval from the higher ups. FEMA had shitty intel and was extremely unorganized, and Michael Brown was underqualified for the job to begin with. Chertoff hesitated to take action and declare Katrina an incident of national significance, and Bush made things more complicated by putting FEMA in charge. He also denied relief efforts that other countries such as Venezuela, France, Russia, Germany, Sweden and the Netherlands, instead saying that they could send money if they wanted to help.

Well thanks for getting my paper started, if you have any complaints or disagreements with my points then please tell me now because I'm about to knock this sucker down.
About that Spike Lee documentary: BS. That's what I mean, the national media has spun that side of the story around.

There was MAYBE a handful of people that honestly couldn't get out. The rest were just being stubborn. And of course they go along with the excuses the rest of the country has made for them.

New Orleans is impossible to control. After all the money that has been pumped into the city, it has made little progress. Mainly because of the crime that has always existed there.

So though the emergency response facilities DID need an overhaul, their incompetence was cartoonishly over exaggerated by this particular occurrence. No system or administration could magically fix a place like New Orleans after an event like that without mass turmoil, tragedy and mishaps.

God only helps those who help themselves. And a government CAN'T help a population incapable of helping itself.
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Old 03-15-2009, 11:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
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About that Spike Lee documentary: BS. That's what I mean, the national media has spun that side of the story around.

There was MAYBE a handful of people that honestly couldn't get out. The rest were just being stubborn. And of course they go along with the excuses the rest of the country has made for them.

New Orleans is impossible to control. After all the money that has been pumped into the city, it has made little progress. Mainly because of the crime that has always existed there.

So though the emergency response facilities DID need an overhaul, their incompetence was cartoonishly over exaggerated by this particular occurrence. No system or administration could magically fix a place like New Orleans after an event like that without mass turmoil, tragedy and mishaps.

God only helps those who help themselves. And a government CAN'T help a population incapable of helping itself.
A percentage were incapable of leaving, and a larger percentage was simply disinclined, is my impression.

I've never been, but my husband has been twice, once about 5 years before Katrina and then again this past February. He said it was exponentially cleaner and nicer than when he was there the last time.
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Old 03-15-2009, 11:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:01 AM   #17 (permalink)
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That's very interesting stitch1z. This is the first I've heard of your point of view, and I'm kind of tempted to print out your post and read it to my professor.

However I think I will still go the Spike Lee route with my paper, because my professor actually wrote a book about how the government screwed everything up, has a history of not caring about the poor residents of New Orleans, and it even hints that the Bush administration's lack of response was due to racism against blacks. You seem to really disagree with this. I must say though, the documentary showed the state of the people at the convention center and along the freeways, and how they did not receive food or water for days. I found that to be pretty compelling.

You say that the government can't fix New Orleans, but the main point of the movie was that a lot of the damage and death was preventable. A big finger was pointed at the levee system.

It seems that my professor and Spike Lee sympathize with the poor residents despite the warnings they got, and put the majority of the blame on the government who failed to protect those who stayed behind. You seem to put most of the blame on the people, and sympathize with the government who can't help them because of the crime and their stupidity.

Your point comes off as kind of harsh but I would still like to try giving it a shot in class. Although I wouldn't have anything to back up my claims beside what you said, and my professor has a database full of sources and articles to argue her point.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:33 AM   #18 (permalink)
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That's very interesting stitch1z. This is the first I've heard of your point of view, and I'm kind of tempted to print out your post and read it to my professor.

However I think I will still go the Spike Lee route with my paper, because my professor actually wrote a book about how the government screwed everything up, has a history of not caring about the poor residents of New Orleans, and it even hints that the Bush administration's lack of response was due to racism against blacks. You seem to really disagree with this. I must say though, the documentary showed the state of the people at the convention center and along the freeways, and how they did not receive food or water for days. I found that to be pretty compelling.

You say that the government can't fix New Orleans, but the main point of the movie was that a lot of the damage and death was preventable. A big finger was pointed at the levee system.

It seems that my professor and Spike Lee sympathize with the poor residents despite the warnings they got, and put the majority of the blame on the government who failed to protect those who stayed behind. You seem to put most of the blame on the people, and sympathize with the government who can't help them because of the crime and their stupidity.

Your point comes off as kind of harsh but I would still like to try giving it a shot in class. Although I wouldn't have anything to back up my claims beside what you said, and my professor has a database full of sources and articles to argue her point.
Who is your professor, Kayne West? Bush was the first to appoint and African American to secretary of state.

How is the government suppose to protect those that stay behind? They told them there were no safe areas. Does your professor sympathize with all the people that were looting TV's, shoes, and guns?

It's a matter of people taking responsibility for themselves instead of putting the blame on others.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:50 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I agree that they should have listened to the warnings are got the hell out, and that by staying many brought tragedy upon themselves.

But how I am supposed to write a paper about the justice issues of Katrina if I just say "well they should have left"? And no she doesn't sympathize with the looters of TVs and stuff, but there is a chapter in her book about how only black people were referred to as "looters", and that many of them were taking supplies like food and water that they actually needed. White people were doing it too, but they were portrayed as desperate survivors gathering supplies from stores to stay alive.

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Old 03-16-2009, 01:31 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I agree that they should have listened to the warnings are got the hell out, and that by staying many brought tragedy upon themselves.

But how I am supposed to write a paper about the justice issues of Katrina if I just say "well they should have left"? And no she doesn't sympathize with the looters of TVs and stuff, but there is a chapter in her book about how only black people were referred to as "looters", and that many of them were taking supplies like food and water that they actually needed. White people were doing it too, but they were portrayed as desperate survivors gathering supplies from stores to stay alive.

Well, you and I both know that you have to write a paper that fits into the popular opinion for the sake of not being harassed.

But for your own personal knowledge so your not brainwashed like the rest of the country has been on this matter:

I've lived there my entire life. These people didn't need to leave the state, they needed to hike a ride FORTY MILES NORTH to escape the brunt of the danger. And there were shelters set up all over those areas and they WOULD NOT turn people away.

That's what gets me in the "poor people couldn't leave" argument. THEY COULD HAVE MADE IT A FEW MILES NORTH TO ESCAPE THE FLOOD DANGER. THERE WERE SHELTERS THERE.

I lived there my whole life and the aftermath didn't surprise me a bit. The population of Southeast Louisiana has a SERIOUS problem with it's poor having a sense of entitlement without working.

All of the misfortunes were foreseen and everyone was given an opportunity to leave AND had ample warning.

Don't buy into that "those poor victims" crap. It's a lie to the extent that the government PUT THEM in that situation.

Choppers had to turn away because they were being shot at. How do you blame that on the government?

Like I said, I was there. And it sucked. Having your house flood and your neighborhood submerged underwater is horrible (which I didn't go through, just minor flooding and tree damage). But the MAJORITY of people that stayed did so defiantly. Not because they were "left behind".

Your professor's database is faulty and fed by a propaganda machine that wants to reward people for not working, sh#tting babies out, and killing each other so they can cast their vote for the next corrupt Louisiana politician.

They re-elected "Chocolate City" Nagin, didn't they?
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