Watchmen and philosophy on Rorschach - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
The Lounge General off topic chat.

Reply

Old 03-16-2009, 11:30 AM   #1 (permalink)
MMA Patriot
 
americanfighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: louisville ky
Posts: 3,990
americanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By Allamericanfighter Is Beloved By All
Watchmen and philosophy on Rorschach

Hey guys I know Alot of you like the movie watchmen because it makes you think. After reading my philosophy book and studying the watchmen book Here is my depiction of Rorschach.

each character has their own philosopher. Ror schach = Emanuel Kant= retributionism.

Rorschach represents retribution. The view that evil should be punished for no other reason than because of their evil deeds. Not for the benefit of the victims or to lower crime rates or to help the criminal in rehabilitation. we punish them because they are evil and the punishment must be fitting to what they did. and there is no shame in this no mater how shameful it may seem to carry out the punishment.

1you punish someone only for a voluntary wrong doing. 2) the punishment must be equivalent to the deed. 3) the justification for the punishment is returning suffering for wrongdoing.
retributive is not a consequential thing we punish those who deserve it because they deserve it period. To punish someone for a end like a lower crime rate is to use a man as a means to pressure something which is unexceptionable. a man should be treated as a end themselves never a means. every person can act morally or immorally this proves their moral value. we are all moral agents.in order to treat criminals a humans we must punish them for the sole reason that committed crime to punish them to send a message is using them as a means which is unacceptable.
society was founded on values like dignity and respect. punishment in a since is a reaffirmation of these values mending the social fabric torn by criminals. Also the punishment is a for of respect for the criminals. If we dont punish them we are not treating them as a member of moral society. we also mend the social values and reaffirm those he violated including those of the victims. Punishment is the cancellation of crime and the restoration of right. Then punishment protects and reproduces moral society. If justace gos there is no longer value in human beings and the world is left to brute animals and cockroaches.
When Rorschach was about to be killed accepted his fate instead of lied because he understood what everyone else didn't. it is better to sacrifice life than morality. It is not necromancy to live but as long as we live we must do so honorably. Never compromise not even in the face of Armageddon. A true man lives for duty so true honer is the manifestation of ones life as a moral agent. Punishment is the shameing of a person of a evil person thus reintegrating them into the moral order of society.
This is the code that Rorschach lives by. The philosophy of Kant.
__________________
"The fat man flies at midnight"
americanfighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 03-16-2009, 01:42 PM   #2 (permalink)
Light Heavyweight
 
name goes here's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London England
Posts: 3,300
name goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crosses
Ack! Hard to read giant text brick ;D

Are we doing spoilers in this thread or not? I haven't seen it yet, just read the comic.

He's definately the best part of the comic.
name goes here is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 01:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
Delicious Pudding
 
D.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Posts: 10,932
D.P. Lord of The ForumD.P. Lord of The ForumD.P. Lord of The ForumD.P. Lord of The ForumD.P. Lord of The ForumD.P. Lord of The ForumD.P. Lord of The ForumD.P. Lord of The ForumD.P. Lord of The ForumD.P. Lord of The ForumD.P. Lord of The Forum
Good read man. And I really want to watch this movie, I keep getting mixed reviews, but I want to see it anyway. I was playing the game for it on 360 and it's pretty awesome too.
__________________


D.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 01:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
M_D
Homicidal Maniac
 
M_D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 6,126
Blog Entries: 1
M_D Is UntouchableM_D Is UntouchableM_D Is UntouchableM_D Is UntouchableM_D Is UntouchableM_D Is UntouchableM_D Is UntouchableM_D Is UntouchableM_D Is UntouchableM_D Is UntouchableM_D Is Untouchable
good read
__________________


Over! 2,000,000 Views!

P4P Best Fighter
Angely Lane
M_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 01:48 PM   #5 (permalink)
Light Heavyweight
 
name goes here's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London England
Posts: 3,300
name goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crossesname goes here Is Respected By All He Crosses
Yeah it is a good read... not an entirely too extreme philosophy either
name goes here is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 01:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
Lightweight
 
HeavyRob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 953
HeavyRob Is True Champion Of KnowledgeHeavyRob Is True Champion Of KnowledgeHeavyRob Is True Champion Of KnowledgeHeavyRob Is True Champion Of KnowledgeHeavyRob Is True Champion Of KnowledgeHeavyRob Is True Champion Of KnowledgeHeavyRob Is True Champion Of KnowledgeHeavyRob Is True Champion Of KnowledgeHeavyRob Is True Champion Of KnowledgeHeavyRob Is True Champion Of KnowledgeHeavyRob Is True Champion Of Knowledge
Good read. I suggest you lengthen that and turn it in as a paper at some point in your semester. Just make sure to fix it up, too

Quote:
Originally Posted by name goes here View Post
Are we doing spoilers in this thread or not? I haven't seen it yet, just read the comic.
If you've read the comic, nothing big can be spoiled. It's a pretty stable adaptation.
HeavyRob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 02:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
Featherweight
 
Iuanes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,133
Iuanes Is True Champion Of KnowledgeIuanes Is True Champion Of KnowledgeIuanes Is True Champion Of KnowledgeIuanes Is True Champion Of KnowledgeIuanes Is True Champion Of KnowledgeIuanes Is True Champion Of KnowledgeIuanes Is True Champion Of KnowledgeIuanes Is True Champion Of KnowledgeIuanes Is True Champion Of KnowledgeIuanes Is True Champion Of KnowledgeIuanes Is True Champion Of Knowledge
I disagree to an extent. Punishing someone as an act to repair moral society is still treating them as a means to an end. Doing anything to anybody in the name of something that transcends their individuality (society) is always treating them as a means. Assuming that somebody must belong to your notion of moral society, (and should therefore be punished0 is ideologically fascistic.

State societies like we see today were not founded on dignity and respect, they were founded on population, coercion and ideology. Only primitive societies were not based on force, everybody was their own "cheif", no one could tell you what to do, conflicts were mediated, dangerous elements were exiled into their own space. To me this maintains dignity and respect.

(spoiler stuff)
Rorsharche for me represented a reversion into moral absolutism in order to cope with the horrors of nihilism. Remember (at least in the comic), that Rorscharche admits that what happened to the girl didn't effect him so much because it was horrific, that it meant the world was irredeemable, but instead, he realized that there was no inherent meaning in anything, which was the true horror. Think about the inchoate nature of his mask, the notion of the 'rorsharche test', gleaning meaning from the meaningless difference. His mask, while shapeless and in constant flux. is at least starkly black and white, and this is similar to the absolute differences he makes between good and evil. Valuations he makes in order to survive as an entity in a world of abysses. (see the nietzshe quote in the comic)In fact I would say Rorsharche best aligns with a nietzshcean manifestation.

He is heroic because is he able to see through the illusions of the world, pick his means of interpretation and have the will of conviction to see them through without compromise. What is heroic is not his specific morals persay, but the way in which he actualizes them.
Iuanes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 02:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
The Forum Drunk
 
xeberus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 9,451
xeberus Is Future HOF Materialxeberus Is Future HOF Materialxeberus Is Future HOF Materialxeberus Is Future HOF Materialxeberus Is Future HOF Materialxeberus Is Future HOF Materialxeberus Is Future HOF Materialxeberus Is Future HOF Materialxeberus Is Future HOF Materialxeberus Is Future HOF Materialxeberus Is Future HOF Material
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iuanes View Post
I disagree to an extent. Punishing someone as an act to repair moral society is still treating them as a means to an end. Doing anything to anybody in the name of something that transcends their individuality (society) is always treating them as a means. Assuming that somebody must belong to your notion of moral society, (and should therefore be punished0 is ideologically fascistic.

State societies like we see today were not founded on dignity and respect, they were founded on population, coercion and ideology. Only primitive societies were not based on force, everybody was their own "cheif", no one could tell you what to do, conflicts were mediated, dangerous elements were exiled into their own space. To me this maintains dignity and respect.

(spoiler stuff)
Rorsharche for me represented a reversion into moral absolutism in order to cope with the horrors of nihilism. Remember (at least in the comic), that Rorscharche admits that what happened to the girl didn't effect him so much because it was horrific, that it meant the world was irredeemable, but instead, he realized that there was no inherent meaning in anything, which was the true horror. Think about the inchoate nature of his mask, the notion of the 'rorsharche test', gleaning meaning from the meaningless difference. His mask, while shapeless and in constant flux. is at least starkly black and white, and this is similar to the absolute differences he makes between good and evil. Valuations he makes in order to survive as an entity in a world of abysses. (see the nietzshe quote in the comic)In fact I would say Rorsharche best aligns with a nietzshcean manifestation.

He is heroic because is he able to see through the illusions of the world, pick his means of interpretation and have the will of conviction to see them through without compromise. What is heroic is not his specific morals persay, but the way in which he actualizes them.
I also disagree, kant believed in the importance of having pure intentions when carrying out an action, otherwise it would be meaningless. The end result was not the most important aspect, but he took into account how the person felt while carrying out the action. This along with most pure philosophies are so divorced from reality they make the conclusions invalid and on purpose.

In my opinion people do and should act in such a way as to make a set of moral guidelines while very generally laid out but having certain specific parts. The reason these moral guidelines are working and should be enforced is the greater good for the most people. No murder, because we are all afraid to be murdered. No murder, because we would have chaos. No murder, because we all die. How a person feels when dealing with a murder is of little importance, there is no morality in the punishment of others. The morality is found in the result, not the action, the action is merely a means to an end, an end to murder, an end to a murderer. To stop a murderer is not to punish but to maintain morality, maintain the way we want to live, its our safety net from chaos.
__________________


If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. ~ Thomas Jefferson


Sig by D.P.



xeberus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 03:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
I Finish Threads
 
HexRei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 8,231
HexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By AllHexRei Is Beloved By All
Quote:
Originally Posted by americanfighter View Post
Hey guys I know Alot of you like the movie watchmen because it makes you think. After reading my philosophy book and studying the watchmen book Here is my depiction of Rorschach.

each character has their own philosopher. Ror schach = Emanuel Kant= retributionism.

Rorschach represents retribution. The view that evil should be punished for no other reason than because of their evil deeds. Not for the benefit of the victims or to lower crime rates or to help the criminal in rehabilitation. we punish them because they are evil and the punishment must be fitting to what they did. and there is no shame in this no mater how shameful it may seem to carry out the punishment.

1you punish someone only for a voluntary wrong doing. 2) the punishment must be equivalent to the deed. 3) the justification for the punishment is returning suffering for wrongdoing.
retributive is not a consequential thing we punish those who deserve it because they deserve it period. To punish someone for a end like a lower crime rate is to use a man as a means to pressure something which is unexceptionable. a man should be treated as a end themselves never a means. every person can act morally or immorally this proves their moral value. we are all moral agents.in order to treat criminals a humans we must punish them for the sole reason that committed crime to punish them to send a message is using them as a means which is unacceptable.
society was founded on values like dignity and respect. punishment in a since is a reaffirmation of these values mending the social fabric torn by criminals. Also the punishment is a for of respect for the criminals. If we dont punish them we are not treating them as a member of moral society. we also mend the social values and reaffirm those he violated including those of the victims. Punishment is the cancellation of crime and the restoration of right. Then punishment protects and reproduces moral society. If justace gos there is no longer value in human beings and the world is left to brute animals and cockroaches.
When Rorschach was about to be killed accepted his fate instead of lied because he understood what everyone else didn't. it is better to sacrifice life than morality. It is not necromancy to live but as long as we live we must do so honorably. Never compromise not even in the face of Armageddon. A true man lives for duty so true honer is the manifestation of ones life as a moral agent. Punishment is the shameing of a person of a evil person thus reintegrating them into the moral order of society.
This is the code that Rorschach lives by. The philosophy of Kant.
Rorschach was also a bigoted homophobe.
__________________
His helmet was stifling, it narrowed his vision. And he must see far. His shield was heavy. It threw him off balance. And his target is far away.
HexRei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 04:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
Back In Black
 
Chrisl972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 4,177
Chrisl972 Is UntouchableChrisl972 Is UntouchableChrisl972 Is UntouchableChrisl972 Is UntouchableChrisl972 Is UntouchableChrisl972 Is UntouchableChrisl972 Is UntouchableChrisl972 Is UntouchableChrisl972 Is UntouchableChrisl972 Is UntouchableChrisl972 Is Untouchable
I don't know about you guys, but I found his charater an inspiration. His unwavering in his conviction is something more people should strive for.

He didn't hurt anyone that didn't deserve it. He truly believed that the wicked should be punished and he had the balls to make sure that it happened.

Wrong was wrong in his eyes and there was no convincing him otherwise. How can you not be drawn to someone like that??

His deligence was epic in every aspect of the word. He refused to ingore anything that he felt was destroying the world he loved and protected. Is that so bad?
__________________
Chrisl972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
Powered by vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2009 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios