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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-13-2006, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
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Merry (Secular) Christmas!

Dobbs: A tree grows in Seattle - CNN.com

Lou Dobbs has a point when he says; "Merry Christmas! That's right, Merry Christmas. Whether you're Christian, Jewish, Muslim, agnostic, pagan, barbarian or whatever, Merry Christmas! ...It's what most of us say in this country come this time of year. It's about who we are, where we are and where we've been."

Now, before anyone starts screaming HYPOCRATE at me, let me explain why I agree with Mr. Dobbs--at least in theory. The fact is that Christmas, while technically a Christian holiday, is no longer. It has become completely secularized, or if you prefer, corporatized or mediatized. What I mean is that Christmas has truly gone back to its Pagan origins and come to stand as the herald of winter. Most people nowadays don't see a baby Jesus in their minds when they hear sleigh bells, or watch A Christmas Story. The religion has taken the back seat of what has become a megacorporate celebration.

This morning I was flipping through my TV while waiting for my english muffin to pop, and stumbled on a segment of Good Morning America entitled Operation Christmas. It is their way of bringing, and i quote, "the holiday spirit" to the troops. Not the Christmas spirit, or the "principles of Christianity" to the troops, but the holiday spirit. To me this is just another example of how Christmas, despite its fundamental purpose, has been overshadowed by secular intent. All those who claim a war on Christmas is being perpetrated by atheists, secularists and anyone else who doesn't where a red velvet hat during this time of year, don't seem to realize that it is the media and the corporations who have turned their sacred holiday into a mass marketing frenzy. What the hell do lights, giant blowup snow globes, and movies about kids getting their eye's shot out have to do with the birth of Jesus? (which, by the way, is just estimated and guessed to be December 25th) Nothing, that's what!

And it is more than just an appeasement of sensibilities; the crumbling of Christmas is not a result of non-Christian people wishing for their own holidays and traditions to be equally recognized. It is a direct decision by corporate America to market a winter holiday to everyone.

"Hey, if I buy holiday lights and blowup snowmen, that's just about winter right? It's not Christmas stuff!"

So I do get Mr. Dobbs's point that Christmas is now basically a symbol for winter. However, i do think it is a fundamental problem in this country that we still pretend Christmas actually means anything other than high credit card bills and dealing with alcoholic relatives. True, those people who put light-up mangers in front of their house at least have some assemblage of what their holiday represents, but to pretend that Christmas the Christian holiday still exists en masse is just plain ignorant.

I have no problem with wreaths and trees, since they are pagan symbols anyway; standing for the true spirit of winter. Hell, even santa is a pagan tradition, along with egg nog, giving gifts, and having a feast. So don't try and convince me that the "birth of Jesus" has anything to do with Christmas now, or essentially, ever. I mean, where there fir trees in the desert when Christ was born? I think not. I still take some minor offense in the sense that someone who is wishing me a Merry Christmas probably assumes I'm Christian, but in reality they're just wishing me a good winter. I'll take it as that!

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Last edited by pt447; 12-13-2006 at 11:33 AM.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-13-2006, 11:39 AM
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goddamn jews wanna take away christmas
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-13-2006, 11:48 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalarm
goddamn jews wanna take away christmas
i'm just curious... was that a serious comment? I really hope not

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-13-2006, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pt447
i'm just curious... was that a serious comment? I really hope not
One look at his avatar should answer that =/
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-13-2006, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pt447
..."I still take some minor offense in the sense that someone who is wishing me a Merry Christmas probably assumes I'm Christian, but in reality they're just wishing me a good winter.."
I don't say Merry Christmas to people whom I think are just Christian. What does that mean then when I say it to my friends from Korea & Guyana? It is stupid and ignorant for him to assume that.

*edit* Shit double post, sorry. I hate when ppl do that.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-13-2006, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruban
I don't say Merry Christmas to people whom I think are just Christian. What does that mean then when I say it to my friends from Korea & Guyana? It is stupid and ignorant for him to assume that.

*edit* Shit double post, sorry. I hate when ppl do that.
so you wish people Merry Christmas whom you arent' sure celebrate the holiday? also, if you wish it to your Korean friends, do they actually celbrate it? I mean, let's face facts, if they aren't Christian, they don't celebrate Christmas and it is meaningless to them.

for example: it's as if a hindu wished you a "Happy hindu holiday"... does that make any sense, both either know or not knowing you're religion? You wouldn't wish someone whom you KNOW doesn't celebrate the holiday a merry christmas... would you wish a jewish family who doesn't celebrate Christmas, a Merry Christmas?

no...

and "ignorant" always sounds too harsh a term. it's just that in america we tend to assume the rest of the people in this country are Christian, or at least, it's just easier to think that way.

whiskey, racism, money, grease, twinkie's, guns.....yep lol thats about it

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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-13-2006, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pt447
so you wish people Merry Christmas whom you arent' sure celebrate the holiday?
Yes I do. If a hindu wants to wish me a happy hindu christmas go ahead!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pt447
would you wish a jewish family who doesn't celebrate Christmas, a Merry Christmas?

no...
Yes actually I do. They don't care, and they shouldn't. I'm the same way. If it did happen to bother them well unfortunately for them that's too bad.


Too me it has been more of an expression than a direct link to a religious belief.

Last edited by ruban; 12-13-2006 at 04:02 PM.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-13-2006, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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i totally see what you're saying, but it still doesn't make sense. if you are Christian and believe in Christmas as the holy day when Christ was born, then wishing a non-celebrator "merry christmas" makes no sense... unless you're aknowledging the complete and utter secularization of the holiday. you can't have it both ways. either it is a religious holiday, or it's not.

whiskey, racism, money, grease, twinkie's, guns.....yep lol thats about it

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-13-2006, 04:16 PM
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Happy Chanuka

I really am not a christmassy person but should I feel in the mood, I usually just say happy holidays, I have a lot of friends who are not christian and I just say it out of respect for them and really dont care if people get pissed cuz i dont say merry christmas...
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-13-2006, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColossalCanadian
Happy Chanuka

I really am not a christmassy person but should I feel in the mood, I usually just say happy holidays, I have a lot of friends who are not christian and I just say it out of respect for them and really dont care if people get pissed cuz i dont say merry christmas...
see, now that's perfectly reasonable. how hard was that?

whiskey, racism, money, grease, twinkie's, guns.....yep lol thats about it

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