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Old 11-04-2009, 09:51 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The same arguments used against gay marriage are the same arguments used back in the day against interracial marriage.

Here's my opinion. The need to remove the word marriage altogether. Make everything a civil union, and if you want to be "married", talk to a priest of some sort. Basically, take this argument out of the government. Nothing would change, except all the people that, for some reason, have a problem with Gays using the term "marriage", would be placated. It is all semantics, and therefore stupid IMO.

How I really feel, is that this is a simple case of ignorance. People are bigoted due to their ignorance and are told to defend "marriage" tooth and nail. It doesn't matter if two gay guys get married. It doesn't affect anyone besides the two getting married. People need to live their own lives to the best of their abilities and stop trying to tell everyone else how to live theirs. Stop the bigotry and hate. It is unnecessary and will shorten your lifespan.

/rant
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:19 PM   #22 (permalink)
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But it's not just about marriage. It's about one group of society telling the much smaller and isolated group that they are not equal. That because of one characteristic, they can't do something.

How would you feel if the subject was interracial marriage? Sure, marriage might not be important to you, but it's obviously important to other people, so the fact that these ******* dickmouths are holding them back matters.
What "other people" find important is not what I am discussing here. This "debate" is about our opinions, not the opinions of many others. In MY opinion, anything related to marriage is absolutely ridiculous and I couldn't care less. If a group can't get married, I don't care, if they can, I also don't care. I'm not "against" anything nore and I "for" anything, I don't care. Marriage in general is ridiculous and anything related to it is as ridiculous the subject itself.


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Straight people don't need parades because, unlike gays, they haven't been oppressed for pretty much all of modern history.
Whether straight people need them or not is not the point. The point is, straight people don't do that. Why do gay people need to parade around without shirts and yell "I'm gay and I'm proud!"? It's a spectacle in many eyes and definitely in the eyes of the state. This does not help their cause of being serious and trying to get it where they can be married. Stop parading around and showing off the fact that you're gay, and start taking is serious. At the end of the day, it has no effect whatsoever on my life, nore do I care about marriage. My opinion, FOR THEM, is that they stop parading around and acting silly, take it seriously, and maybe something might change.

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It's much more than a part of it.

http://phrenologistsnotebook.com/cat...al-psychology/

Note that even when right wing politics are accounted for, religion correlates strongly with homophobia.
I don't even need to click on the link, religion causes many "problems" and this is one of them. I do not disagree at all.

Quote:
That doesn't make it right.
Right or wrong that's how it is. Histroy repeats itself often, that's what happens. With religion, with putting themselves out there so much, with being the minority, it'll take a long, long, long time for things to change, especially with how they are handling it.

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You have it backwards. They aren't singled out because of the way they act. They act the way they do because they are singled out.
Really? Because I can go for a long duration of time and not once think about the gay community, yet if I slap on the TV I can catch a parade with a bunch of people marching and yelling "I'm gay and I'm proud!". How exactly are they singled out by us when THEY are the ones marching down the street screaming that they are gay? I bet if all these parades stopped, if they lived normally and stopped this whole gay rights act, eventually enough gay people would naturally come out and states might consider letting them marry more, since it looks a lot less like a fad when they aren't marching the streets.

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Black people didn't stop acting black in the 1960s. They got in white people's faces. They didn't allow whites to ignore them. Gays (some of them. Again, most of them act no different than me or you) are doing the same thing.
Well, that's fine, and how is that working out for them? See, the difference here is, we didn't put shackles on gays and make them work for us. Gays are just a group of people that have naturally risen. As such, if they keep making a spectacle of themselves and keep "getting in our faces", they should not expect to be treated as being serious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WouldLuv2FightU View Post
This. I feel exactly the same way. I know I came off brash in my first post but I'm really getting annoyed by this new gay fad or whatever it is.

People are gonna generalize me and you and call us "bigots" just like everyone generalizes everything including us about the gays.

Every kind of person has a group of them that ruins it for the rest of them. Gays are no different. I feel the same way about EVERY group, but they are not the topic right now, so I don't mention them. If blacks wanna be taken seriously they should act normal too. They ruin it for all the black people that try to be taken seriously. Same with whites. Same with Latinos. Same with midgets. It doesn't matter though because we are talking about gays here.

I seriously don't give 2 shits about whether someone is gay or not, or if they wanna get married. I really really really don't. But that doesn't mean I have to like the ones that make it blatantly over the top obvious every single day. I'm entitled to my opinion just like everyone else. It's not like I TRY to think this way. This is how I am. (sound familiar?)If you guys like gay people flaunting their personal sexual preferences then that's you. I don't understand it but whatever that your opinion. I don't go out of my way to show my disgust for gay people and they shouldn't go out of their way to show me how flaming gay they can possibly be.

And yes I realize that *** is slanderous. It was supposed to be. I was specifically talking about the ***s on TV who flaunt it excessively and make it seem cool to be gay. Once again, I don't care if your gay. But if your gonna act like a fool about it, then I don't care about what I call you. Just like I don't care about calling a black guy who sells crack and robs people to pay for his ice and shit, a dumb n*gger. That's what he is. Even a black guy will tell you this.

If your gonna go out of your way to represent yourself and your community in a stereotypical way, then expect to be called a stereotypical name. I probably sound like a bigot to alot of you because we have different opinions, so I expect some of you to call me a bigot. I'm not gonna cry about it though.

Obviously I am in the majority on this one. Most people don't like gay people flaunting their gayness. And it's not just straight people. Ask the majority of gays (that don't make it obvious) if they like how the gays on TV portray their community and they will tell you "hell no". So all you guys acting like elitists who think you're better then everyone else that doesn't agree with you need to step back. Just because you personally can tolerate blatantly flaming gay over the top queens, doesn't mean that you're way of thinking is the only way. Everyone has different opinions and ways of thinking. I'm not going to tell the gay community that they can't get married, but I will tell them to stop shoving their gayness in my face every time I wanna watch TV. Keep that shit to yourself. Simple as that. Maybe not completely on topic but hey I'm just venting
I agree completely.
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:35 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WouldLuv2FightU View Post
This. I feel exactly the same way. I know I came off brash in my first post but I'm really getting annoyed by this new gay fad or whatever it is.

People are gonna generalize me and you and call us "bigots" just like everyone generalizes everything including us about the gays.

Every kind of person has a group of them that ruins it for the rest of them. Gays are no different. I feel the same way about EVERY group, but they are not the topic right now, so I don't mention them. If blacks wanna be taken seriously they should act normal too. They ruin it for all the black people that try to be taken seriously. Same with whites. Same with Latinos. Same with midgets. It doesn't matter though because we are talking about gays here.

I seriously don't give 2 shits about whether someone is gay or not, or if they wanna get married. I really really really don't. But that doesn't mean I have to like the ones that make it blatantly over the top obvious every single day. I'm entitled to my opinion just like everyone else. It's not like I TRY to think this way. This is how I am. (sound familiar?)If you guys like gay people flaunting their personal sexual preferences then that's you. I don't understand it but whatever that your opinion. I don't go out of my way to show my disgust for gay people and they shouldn't go out of their way to show me how flaming gay they can possibly be.

And yes I realize that *** is slanderous. It was supposed to be. I was specifically talking about the ***s on TV who flaunt it excessively and make it seem cool to be gay. Once again, I don't care if your gay. But if your gonna act like a fool about it, then I don't care about what I call you. Just like I don't care about calling a black guy who sells crack and robs people to pay for his ice and shit, a dumb n*gger. That's what he is. Even a black guy will tell you this.

If your gonna go out of your way to represent yourself and your community in a stereotypical way, then expect to be called a stereotypical name. I probably sound like a bigot to alot of you because we have different opinions, so I expect some of you to call me a bigot. I'm not gonna cry about it though.

Obviously I am in the majority on this one. Most people don't like gay people flaunting their gayness. And it's not just straight people. Ask the majority of gays (that don't make it obvious) if they like how the gays on TV portray their community and they will tell you "hell no". So all you guys acting like elitists who think you're better then everyone else that doesn't agree with you need to step back. Just because you personally can tolerate blatantly flaming gay over the top queens, doesn't mean that you're way of thinking is the only way. Everyone has different opinions and ways of thinking. I'm not going to tell the gay community that they can't get married, but I will tell them to stop shoving their gayness in my face every time I wanna watch TV. Keep that shit to yourself. Simple as that. Maybe not completely on topic but hey I'm just venting
I feel the exact same way.
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:51 PM   #24 (permalink)
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D.P. isnt going to like this thread....
Yeah, I know. I hate having this debate with my girl, she always wins.

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Originally Posted by Michael Carson View Post
I honestly couldn't care less what people in the 60s thought or had opinions on.

I have nothing against gay people, I never have, but they are annoying with their "I'm gay, look at me, hey look!" attitude. They are turning it into a fad, and it isn't helping their cause of wanting to get married. They need to take it far more seriously if that's what they want.

If they wish to continue acting like that and having more reasons for states to reject them getting married, then that is their decision. As I said earlier, I couldn't care less, I hate marriage in general, but if they want it, they need to take it far more seriously and stop acting like it's a fad.

EDIT - It's not just them, by the way, most "groups" have things that hold them back or that people get annoyed with, and this is one of theirs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WouldLuv2FightU View Post
This. I feel exactly the same way. I know I came off brash in my first post but I'm really getting annoyed by this new gay fad or whatever it is.

People are gonna generalize me and you and call us "bigots" just like everyone generalizes everything including us about the gays.

Every kind of person has a group of them that ruins it for the rest of them. Gays are no different. I feel the same way about EVERY group, but they are not the topic right now, so I don't mention them. If blacks wanna be taken seriously they should act normal too. They ruin it for all the black people that try to be taken seriously. Same with whites. Same with Latinos. Same with midgets. It doesn't matter though because we are talking about gays here.

I seriously don't give 2 shits about whether someone is gay or not, or if they wanna get married. I really really really don't. But that doesn't mean I have to like the ones that make it blatantly over the top obvious every single day. I'm entitled to my opinion just like everyone else. It's not like I TRY to think this way. This is how I am. (sound familiar?)If you guys like gay people flaunting their personal sexual preferences then that's you. I don't understand it but whatever that your opinion. I don't go out of my way to show my disgust for gay people and they shouldn't go out of their way to show me how flaming gay they can possibly be.

And yes I realize that *** is slanderous. It was supposed to be. I was specifically talking about the ***s on TV who flaunt it excessively and make it seem cool to be gay. Once again, I don't care if your gay. But if your gonna act like a fool about it, then I don't care about what I call you. Just like I don't care about calling a black guy who sells crack and robs people to pay for his ice and shit, a dumb n*gger. That's what he is. Even a black guy will tell you this.

If your gonna go out of your way to represent yourself and your community in a stereotypical way, then expect to be called a stereotypical name. I probably sound like a bigot to alot of you because we have different opinions, so I expect some of you to call me a bigot. I'm not gonna cry about it though.

Obviously I am in the majority on this one. Most people don't like gay people flaunting their gayness. And it's not just straight people. Ask the majority of gays (that don't make it obvious) if they like how the gays on TV portray their community and they will tell you "hell no". So all you guys acting like elitists who think you're better then everyone else that doesn't agree with you need to step back. Just because you personally can tolerate blatantly flaming gay over the top queens, doesn't mean that you're way of thinking is the only way. Everyone has different opinions and ways of thinking. I'm not going to tell the gay community that they can't get married, but I will tell them to stop shoving their gayness in my face every time I wanna watch TV. Keep that shit to yourself. Simple as that. Maybe not completely on topic but hey I'm just venting
I agree with these points. Very, very true.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:15 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Haha, what's funny to me is that nobody on here has really argued against gay marriage. More of an argument against flamboyant gayness. Very interesting.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:25 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I don't think anyone here cares of gays get married, but the reason why they are having so many problems is because of the way they treat it, in a not so serious way.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:30 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Davisty69 View Post
Haha, what's funny to me is that nobody on here has really argued against gay marriage. More of an argument against flamboyant gayness. Very interesting.
Yea that was kinda my fault. I was trying to say that the flamboyantly gay community is ruining the chances of them ever being treated equally or taken seriously. I still stick to that.

EDIT: Oh wow. I just got done watching the new episode of south park a little bit ago and I couldn't help but think of how wierd it was. They made an episode about basically what I was ranting about. The loud obnoxious "look at me!" type bikers were a metaphor for loud obnoxious "look at me!" type gays. They even talked about the difference between a *** and a gay guy...LOL. It's like they read my post and made a show out of it in like 25 minutes.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:45 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I don't have a problem with that. I don't think it should really matter, but I'm a pragmatist and realize that it really does matter.

However, I seriously doubt that if all the Flamboyant Gays were to tone it down and live "normal" lives (whatever that really is), people would feel better about gay marriage. I think the bigotry would still be there, only they would have even less of an actual argument. IMO, the argument as it stands now is about as thin as tissue paper, but then they would have to fall back solely upon the original arguments which clearly show bigotry.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:53 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Davisty69 View Post
I don't have a problem with that. I don't think it should really matter, but I'm a pragmatist and realize that it really does matter.

However, I seriously doubt that if all the Flamboyant Gays were to tone it down and live "normal" lives (whatever that really is), people would feel better about gay marriage. I think the bigotry would still be there, only they would have even less of an actual argument. IMO, the argument as it stands now is about as thin as tissue paper, but then they would have to fall back solely upon the original arguments which clearly show bigotry.
You're probably right (unfortunately), however they definitely aren't doing anything to help their cause by acting that way...IMHO.

When you capitalized Flamboyant Gays...I thought for a second that it was an anagram for ***s. But that would have to be Flamboyant Acting Gays. Teehee
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Old 11-05-2009, 12:17 AM   #30 (permalink)
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http://www.mmaforum.com/mma-forum-lo...rriage-30.html

http://www.mmaforum.com/mma-forum-lo...-8-really.html

Another gay marriage thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Common Sense
Why must we use the term "marriage" when talking about gay rights. Give them equal rights, but don't give them "marriage". Like I have already said, "Marriage" is a union of a man and a woman and acknowledges (intentionally or otherwise) religious principles of commitment, forgiveness, love and monogamy etc. Our whole societal structure is based on the principles of marriage. Of course, many people will be angry when someone tries to alter a fundamental aspect of their life and society by altering the context of "marriages".
It is similar to the outrage expressed at Polygamists. By altering the conventional framework of "marriage" they challenge mainstream beliefs on ethical, societal and spiritual levels.
Let gay people be gay, good on them. Do they qualify to get "married" in the conventional sense? No.
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