What the hell are your Mounties doing? - Page 5 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
The Lounge General off topic chat.

Reply

Old 07-09-2008, 10:33 PM   #41 (permalink)
Middleweight
 
milkkid291's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,672
milkkid291 Is Respected By All He Crossesmilkkid291 Is Respected By All He Crossesmilkkid291 Is Respected By All He Crossesmilkkid291 Is Respected By All He Crossesmilkkid291 Is Respected By All He Crossesmilkkid291 Is Respected By All He Crossesmilkkid291 Is Respected By All He Crossesmilkkid291 Is Respected By All He Crossesmilkkid291 Is Respected By All He Crossesmilkkid291 Is Respected By All He Crossesmilkkid291 Is Respected By All He Crosses
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasvll View Post
How are they more realistic? The article says the man was laying in his bed and took out a pocket knife, then refused to let anyone take his property away from him. You're suggesting that he was not only preparing to go on a killing spree but had the physical ability to do so, despite having just had open heart surgery, pneumonia, requiring an oxygen tank, and being 82 freaking years old.
I'd say my What if's were more realistic than a bazooka uder the pillow because it was mentioned earlier that they could've locked him in the room. I just said what if he wasn't in a private room and there were other patients in that room with him or what if he started to inflict damage to himself with the knife. Not that it would happen, but definately most plausible than a bazooka under his pillow.

It's against the rules of the hospital to bring in any kind of weapon for obvious reasons. He brought in a pocket knife and pulled it out and refused to give it up. I'm not saying he was preparing to go on a killing spree or go crazy and start stabbing random people, but how are these officers suppose to know that? The guy even said he doesn't know why he was refusing to give it up, so who knows what else people might've thought he might do. It's not like this guy can't jab the knife at anyone that gets near him. He obviously had the strength to pull the knife out, so I'm sure the nurses didn't want to risk going near him with a knife not knowing if he was going to cut them or not.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jasvll View Post
Are you suggesting that law enforcement should tase anyone who makes someone else uncomfortable?
No, I'm not. I'm saying that I'm sure these nurses were uncomfortable with a delusional patient weilding a pocket knife in the hospital. These nurses get close to him and I doubt that they would want to take the risk in seeing if he would try to cut them or not. That, and also it's against the law and hospitals policies to bring in any weapon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasvll View Post
In 82 years, he appears to have done no such thing, and as a former prison guard, was even trusted to protect law abiding citizens from those who would.
According to the nurses, he sometimes becomes delirious and delusional. Can't predict what anyone will do when they are like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasvll View Post
Do you have something personal against nearly dead old men? If so, I know a few mounties you might get along with.
Oh yeah, I hate old men. I can't stand them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZtigerZZ81 View Post
Why would he do that? And how would a knife be helpful in that circumstance. If safety was truly the number one concern, as you suggest, I don't see anything safer then locking him in there by himself. How is him cutting himself any less dangerous then other people tasing him?
Well, if they did lock him in the room, we still do not know if he was in a private room, sharing a room with another patient, or in the recovery room with a dozen others. If he started to cut himself, the hospital and police would be blamed for not properly taking care of patients and for allowing a patient to wield a weapon without consequence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZtigerZZ81 View Post
Most pocket knives are not dangerous enough to do anything other then hurt the other person. The ones you pictured were much larger and would not be considered pocket knives. They would qualify more as tactical knives.
There are thousands of different types of pocket knives, but I guess he knife was 3 inches long.





Quote:
Originally Posted by jasvll View Post
He had recently been released from the hospital for the heart surgery, but was brought back in due to complications involving pneumonia. He also required an oxygen tank to function. Who knows what kind of havoc he would have wrought on the world from that hospital bed if not for the mounties and their tasers.
He could've easily injured the nurses that handle him. That doesn't require getting up, just a jab or thrust with your arm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjbish23 View Post
I bet I mean I know i'm deathly scared of 82 year old heart surgery patients who are bedridden and need an oxygen tank. I'm sure he could have done a lot of damage with a pocket knife that probably didn't have a blade longer then 3 inches.

He could've done damage to the nurses. 3 inches is pretty long if stuck into someone's body.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZtigerZZ81 View Post
I know, if he weren't delusional he could have sliced that oxygen tank's tube and used a conventional bic lighter to create a flamethrower.
Let's be serious here and think of the real possibilities of hurting the nurses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZtigerZZ81 View Post
I guess a knife can be a huge weapon (even though it is small).
Would you want something 3 inches long stuck into your body?


Look, we are supplied with very vague information on this situation. We aren't told if he took the knife out and flipped the blade out. We aren't told if he was in a room by himself or with other patients. We aren't told how many times officers asked him to drop the weapon, and we aren't told the third part of the story from the nurses that called it in. We are just old that 3 officers tazed and elderly man who goes delusional sometimes for wielding a knife.
__________________
"When I hear athletes call themselves warriors, it does bother me a little bit. When I think of a warrior, I think of the Marines I've led in combat, those Marines that sacrificed so much...no showers, little food, no contact with their family, all for their love for their brother Marine and for their love for their country. That's a warrior, willing to lay his life on the line. I've had Marines that have laid their lives on the line for the man next to him, and for their family and country. That's a warrior. The guy who goes into some athletic contest who has no war experience, in my eyes, really has no right to call himself that. That's a coveted thing to call someone, and that's what I call my Marines. Those are warriors." - Brian Stann
milkkid291 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 07-09-2008, 10:53 PM   #42 (permalink)
LEGEN...wait for it...DARY
 
ZZtigerZZ81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Georgia
Posts: 5,065
Blog Entries: 3
ZZtigerZZ81 Is World RenownZZtigerZZ81 Is World RenownZZtigerZZ81 Is World RenownZZtigerZZ81 Is World RenownZZtigerZZ81 Is World RenownZZtigerZZ81 Is World RenownZZtigerZZ81 Is World RenownZZtigerZZ81 Is World RenownZZtigerZZ81 Is World RenownZZtigerZZ81 Is World RenownZZtigerZZ81 Is World Renown
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkkid291 View Post
He could've done damage to the nurses. 3 inches is pretty long if stuck into someone's body.
The nurses cleared the room and called hte authorities. How exactly could he have harmed them?

[/quote]Let's be serious here and think of the real possibilities of hurting the nurses.[/quote]
Like I said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by milkkid291 View Post
Would you want something 3 inches long stuck into your body?
II am fairly confident that given the same weapons and training (maybe without the training) I could get the knife from his hands.


Quote:
Originally Posted by milkkid291 View Post
Look, we are supplied with very vague information on this situation. We aren't told if he took the knife out and flipped the blade out. We aren't told if he was in a room by himself or with other patients. We aren't told how many times officers asked him to drop the weapon, and we aren't told the third part of the story from the nurses that called it in. We are just old that 3 officers tazed and elderly man who goes delusional sometimes for wielding a knife.
I agree with this. I think we have all assumed a lot but I still take away form this that excessive force was used. I should also say that i have never been in a situation similar to that, so I am not particurlarly qualified to pass judgment.
__________________
ZZtigerZZ81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 11:03 PM   #43 (permalink)
Super Heavyweight
 
jasvll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,104
jasvll Is Beloved By Alljasvll Is Beloved By Alljasvll Is Beloved By Alljasvll Is Beloved By Alljasvll Is Beloved By Alljasvll Is Beloved By Alljasvll Is Beloved By Alljasvll Is Beloved By Alljasvll Is Beloved By Alljasvll Is Beloved By Alljasvll Is Beloved By All
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkkid291 View Post
I'd say my What if's were more realistic than a bazooka uder the pillow because it was mentioned earlier that they could've locked him in the room.
Yes, I came up with that one. It seems I'm a law enforcement savant.

Quote:
I just said what if he wasn't in a private room and there were other patients in that room with him or what if he started to inflict damage to himself with the knife. Not that it would happen, but definately most plausible than a bazooka under his pillow.
The point is that the scenarios you used to justify their use of excessive force are completely implausible based on the facts cited in the article. Whether or not they're less implausible than another implausible scenario is irrelevant.

Quote:
It's against the rules of the hospital to bring in any kind of weapon for obvious reasons.
You don't know whether or not that's the case here, anymore than you know that they offer sporks with meals. Besides, I've already pointed out that the issue has nothing to do with whether or not he broke a rule, but whether or not the punishment fit the 'crime.'

Quote:
He brought in a pocket knife and pulled it out and refused to give it up. I'm not saying he was preparing to go on a killing spree or go crazy and start stabbing random people, but how are these officers suppose to know that?
By using sound judgment, one would suppose. He's 82, recovering from heart surgery, has pneumonia, and requires a feed of oxygen just to function. Conclusion? He's coming right for us!!!

Quote:
The guy even said he doesn't know why he was refusing to give it up, so who knows what else people might've thought he might do. It's not like this guy can't jab the knife at anyone that gets near him. He obviously had the strength to pull the knife out, so I'm sure the nurses didn't want to risk going near him with a knife not knowing if he was going to cut them or not.
Then I would advise them not to go near him until he's fallen asleep. It's at that time that I would advise security come in to quietly remove the pocket knife. At no time would I advise them to employ 'less lethal' (Taser Int'l. makes it clear that their product is not non-lethal) force because an old man brought his pocket knife with him to the hospital.


Quote:
No, I'm not. I'm saying that I'm sure these nurses were uncomfortable with a delusional patient weilding a pocket knife in the hospital. These nurses get close to him and I doubt that they would want to take the risk in seeing if he would try to cut them or not.
Then I would advise them not to go near him, not have him electrocuted.

Quote:
That, and also it's against the law and hospitals policies to bring in any weapon.
Again, you don't know whether or not that's the case.


Quote:
According to the nurses, he sometimes becomes delirious and delusional. Can't predict what anyone will do when they are like that.
But you can predict what someone will do after electrocuting them, making it the proper course of action, regardless of how helpless they are.

Quote:
Oh yeah, I hate old men. I can't stand them.
I'm just trying to come up with a reason why you wouldn't have sympathy for excessive force applied to the ederly and infirmed. Maybe you work for Taser Int'l?


Quote:
He could've easily injured the nurses that handle him. That doesn't require getting up, just a jab or thrust with your arm.
Then they don't go near him while he's 'armed.' And if we're going to argue that he needs to be treated by the nurses for his condition, then it obviously makes no sense to electrocute him in order to facilitate that treatment.

A little research:
Quote:
For the person who simply made a poor decision, sustained a hit from a TASER, and is subsequently compliant, who has normal vital signs, no signs of excited delirium, and was not hit by the probe in a sensitive part of the anatomy, we simply pull the darts and discharge the patient directly from triage.

There are, however, other groups that warrant caution. There are simply no medical data available on the effects of
the TASER when used in children, the elderly, and pregnant women
. Though some have proposed that the uterus acts
as a shield of sorts from the effects of electricity, the so-called Faraday shield, we have taken the approach of suggesting
fetal monitoring for those past the age of viability.

Cardiac pacemakers also are an areaof controversy. Though the studies that exist with pacemakers suggest no ill
effects to the pacemaker, we approach these patients with caution. Physicians should all consider possible secondary
injuries; we have seen three cases of vertebral compression fracture after TASER activation and also managed a
patient in whom a TASER dart penetrated his skull. - Source
Hey, maybe they were just doing some field research. If that's the case, I would suggest all children and pregnant women get as far away from pocket knives as possible.

By the way, it seems Canada is less thrilled about the RCMP's 'senior shock' program than one might expect:

Canadian Police To Curb Taser Use

Canadian dies after police use Taser on him

Canadian police Tasers kill third man in five weeks
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Rogan
That longing to return to the retarded past can only be born of some collective, subconscious, internal desire to try to turn back the clock on humanity and halt our obvious progression towards the inevitable zombie apocalypse of 2012.

Last edited by jasvll : 07-09-2008 at 11:54 PM.
jasvll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2008, 12:25 AM   #44 (permalink)
Thug Life
 
Suvaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,345
Suvaco Is A BallerSuvaco Is A BallerSuvaco Is A BallerSuvaco Is A BallerSuvaco Is A BallerSuvaco Is A BallerSuvaco Is A BallerSuvaco Is A BallerSuvaco Is A BallerSuvaco Is A BallerSuvaco Is A Baller
I don't know how you can defend such a blatant misuse of a taser. The man is 82 freakin' years old. You need to use a weapon to take a pocket knife from him?
Suvaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 10:49 PM   #45 (permalink)
Megaweight
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,908
truebluefan is a name known to alltruebluefan is a name known to alltruebluefan is a name known to alltruebluefan is a name known to alltruebluefan is a name known to alltruebluefan is a name known to alltruebluefan is a name known to alltruebluefan is a name known to alltruebluefan is a name known to alltruebluefan is a name known to alltruebluefan is a name known to all
What the hell are your Mounties doing?

Thread restored
__________________
UFC 112: Invincible
truebluefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
Powered by vBulletin Copyright 2000-2009 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios