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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-22-2010, 01:56 PM
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True man. **** the corprate world. Im gunna be a hunter gatherer.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-22-2010, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SJ View Post
I am very close to becoming a certified environmental horticulturist, and I just had about 13 paragraphs written about how wrong I think you are. But it was way too heavy, and slightly off topic so I cut it back a little bit.

But I also understand. As a human, it feels great to be able to go to 7-11 and get virtually anything you want in 2 seconds. Oh Henry, Snickers, CHIPS!!! Trust me man. I am 22, If I could shut my mind off and just enjoy what surrounds me, I'm sure I would 100% agree with you. But I can't be that ignorant.
We live in a non-sustainable environment, where industrial methods are REQUIRED (demanded) to feed us, clothe us, and keep us warm, becauseeeee there are 6+ billion of us now.

An "optimist" in my situation could say that security and guaranteed survival are two things that do NOT exist in nature, and unfortunately, that applies to us, our children, and their children as well.

In that case, who who cares if we are 5-6 years past peak oil usage, and who cares if the canadian tar sands will only give us about 11 months of worldwide oil usage in total, and who cares if we basically have to use half of that oil to get it out of the ground, so that we can make some more cars?

I guess we were ****** anyway, right?

Reduce the population by 75% minimum and I will say it is the best world we as humans have ever lived in. The research I've done over the last 2 years, many experts would say going back to 1960's we had a perfect opportunity to keep our population fed and taken care of sustainably. The money hungry always want a piece of the action, and putting anything that by right should belong to humans into the hands of greedy men, was the wrong decision, in my opinion.

But, this is where I cut myself off this time because this is the issue that leads to just about every 'political' problem we have.
Good stuffs... I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say :X

Why do you think im wrong again?

Originally Posted by Iuanes View Post
My main contention is simply that the 'best world ever' is largely unknowable and based on ignorance and opinion and at the very least, shouldn't be used justify the status quo.

Arguably, as I have hinted at, the world before agriculture can be considered the 'best world ever', at least in terms of the conditions for how the majority of people lived and how freely they lived. I would prefer living in a small band 300,000 years ago, than an urban slum or a poor farm. Again, its about who you are not when you are. I don't occupy any of the aforementioned lifestyles nor am I suited any more to flourish in them, but the fact that my life is good does not mean its good for the world, or that the 'how' of my life is sustainable.
So in what ways would living in a small band 300,000 years ago be better than it is today?

If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. ~ Thomas Jefferson

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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-22-2010, 02:09 PM
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I think it would.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-22-2010, 02:28 PM
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While I think the idea of an ideal or greatest world is very subjective and dependant on the person. I think this is the greatest world possible in our current state.

Economically. the world is in wild flux(just like almost always), but a recent report implied that the spending to earning ratio was normalizing to a certain consumer extent in some aspects, but remains out of balance in others.

Politically, the world has always been a crapshoot. Everyone seems to hate everyone for one damn reason or another. Will it eventually end up like to doomsayers believe? Maybe, but I doubt it. I think everyone will remain on edge for a very long time, just like always.

Personally. I believe this is as good as it can get. You'll always have those who want things to shift to the edges of the political spectrum. But as long as there are people who want to find a middle ground I think things will be okay. In my personal life, I've considered disappearing into the vastness of nature and becoming some goofy hermit or some such thing more than once. But I suspect I'd get lonely and commit suicide, so that's out!

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