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Old 08-09-2011, 07:36 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
When you consider companies like Glencore, with a turnover of 100 billion a year... who do you think will step in to "help" when our nations go belly up? In the same way firms like Haliburton got the contracts to rebuild Iraq after it was flattened. A company owned by the buddies of the politicians who convinced us to go to war in the first place. Firms essentially owned by the richest people on the globe. Firms that will eventually own all our services and resources. They engineer these collapses in order to step in and rebuild... and eventually own our countries.

In a nutshell, when whole countries are completely skint, and all the money is owned by the private sector, who is going to help? And part of the deal for their "help" is that they get all the big contracts to run our countries after the dust has settled. Power generation. Transport. Public services. Anything that isnt already in the hands of the private sector. Until eventually it is all owned and run by these bastards.

There are stories that emerged after WWII that showed the same money funding both the Nazis and the Allied forces was coming from the same sources. These very same sources then step in and make a huge amount of cash "helping" to rebuild after the war is finished.

Wankers... the lot of them.

By not paying our taxes on mass, we take back some power and gain some leverage. We are then in a postion to negotiate. As it stands, we simply take it on the chin a soldier on. Typical English attitude. Say nothing and have a cup of tea and all will be better.
by not paying your taxes en masse you eliminate the funding for your own education, health care, transportation and food distribution. I fail to see how that helps.

The scenarios you describe sound more like big corporations taking advantage of local distress not economic collapse.

Most big rich corporations understand that without customers who can afford their products they wouldn't be big rich corporations. so, I doubt that they want economic collapse.

what good do billions of dollars do if no one is producing products to buy.

what good are stock piles of product if no one has money to buy them.

It seems to me that the people who advocate the tearing down of the old system have little idea what the new world would or even should look like.

i for one think this new world order would look more like Mad Max than some hippy heaven.

our children, grandchildren and great grandchildren would gather around on dirt floors to hear grand stories of the way things used to be and the things that people used to be able to do.

Starvation and disease would slash the population to a small fraction of what it is.

just because the governments and police and millitary are gone doesn't mean the guns will be. I see a very ugly new world.
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:41 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
by not paying your taxes en masse you eliminate the funding for your own education, health care, transportation and food distribution. I fail to see how that helps.

The scenarios you describe sound more like big corporations taking advantage of local distress not economic collapse.

Most big rich corporations understand that without customers who can afford their products they wouldn't be big rich corporations. so, I doubt that they want economic collapse.

what good do billions of dollars do if no one is producing products to buy.

what good are stock piles of product if no one has money to buy them.

It seems to me that the people who advocate the tearing down of the old system have little idea what the new world would or even should look like.

i for one think this new world order would look more like Mad Max than some hippy heaven.

our children, grandchildren and great grandchildren would gather around on dirt floors to hear grand stories of the way things used to be and the things that people used to be able to do.

Starvation and disease would slash the population to a small fraction of what it is.

just because the governments and police and millitary are gone doesn't mean the guns will be. I see a very ugly new world.
For sure. Im not saying that any kind of new system will be better. What I'm suggesting is that rather then governments being in control of our resources, it'll be private corporations. In order to make that transition, governments need to be forced to give up their power. The easiest way to do that is to make them skint and forced to seek help to keep the system flowing. These companies support the idea of centralized power. A world bank. A world resources company. etc. This scenario makes it very difficult for the masses to change anything. Thats why I suggested not paying taxes. Not becuase I see it as fixing anything... but rather, it's one of the few avenues left where we can make a protest that actually has impact. After all, as you suggest, fundamental to the plans for centralized power is to keep people paying their taxes. Without that it all falls to bits.

Long and short of it is... there is no comfortable transition from this mess. Either they get what they want: Power to control all our taxes and spending... or we protest as I suggest, and be in for a whole lot of pain anyway.

The opposite of what is happening is what we need, which is Localised government. Localized power and resource generation. If each community of people are providing their own power, food and resources, it makes it difficult for the powers that be to threaten them with anything. But, as long as our oil is being bought from far away. As long as all our power is generated far from where we live. As long as all our food is being imported from god knows where... we, the people, have very little power. Because otherwise we go cold and hungry if we don't conform.


Disclaimer. Im not a politician. I've never studied politics. But I have studied alternative power, food and resource management. The above is just my opinion.
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Old 08-09-2011, 10:39 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
by not paying your taxes en masse you eliminate the funding for your own education, health care, transportation and food distribution. I fail to see how that helps.
It helps because the world would live on free naturally resourced energy. With no energy companies, or oil companies, there would be major dissaray in the financial world. This woulf force change. Within 10 years we could change the whole world into something EVERY person can enjoy and live in peace. The need for money will deteriorate. Without money, the scientists of the world would be freeto work without any financial constraints. Most people are already aware that the technology is currently 50 years behind. That is to say the technology we are using is currently 50 years behind what were capable of. If its jobs you're worring about, like doctors, construction etc...then I say, name me one profession that couldn't be performed by robotics.

Quote:
The scenarios you describe sound more like big corporations taking advantage of local distress not economic collapse.
The big corporations are so much powerful then you would ever believe. There was recently a 3 part documantary on Rupert Murdoch and how he controls Britain. He recieved briefings on wars, held meetings with Tony Blair, Gordon Brown etc. And Murdoch isn't even close to the top of the totem pole.

Quote:
Most big rich corporations understand that without customers who can afford their products they wouldn't be big rich corporations.
Its about control, scaremongering. Whatever it looks like to the average joe, these people will NEVER lose out no matter what they say is happening with the global economy. When you realise that there is no need for money then everything will fall into place.

Quote:
what good do billions of dollars do if no one is producing products to buy.
The advances in technology would bring an end to this modern day slavery. Robotics man.

Quote:
what good are stock piles of product if no one has money to buy them.
Products would be manufactured and sent out without the need for humans. We already have this technology. Natural energy would fuel EVERYTHING! Robotics would produce the goods. Automated trams would transit the goods.

Quote:
It seems to me that the people who advocate the tearing down of the old system have little idea what the new world would or even should look like.
Ron Paul is one. Is he clueless? No, hes by far the brightest and bravest of ALL the politicans int he US presidential elect.

Quote:
i for one think this new world order would look more like Mad Max than some hippy heaven.

our children, grandchildren and great grandchildren would gather around on dirt floors to hear grand stories of the way things used to be and the things that people used to be able to do.
HAhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahaha. Oh man. No disrespect dude, I've always got on with you. You're cool. But man you couldn't be further off if you tried. What is being put forward by myself and people alot more intelligent than me is that our idea of a different Earth isn't a new world order. That is exactly what is being planned by the politicians, a one world governing body i.e, no freedom.

Quote:
Starvation and disease would slash the population to a small fraction of what it is.

just because the governments and police and millitary are gone doesn't mean the guns will be. I see a very ugly new world.
Oh dude. I'll put it this way. Don't believe anything me or Soojouku say. Do your own research. You will be very suprised. I promise. Meanwhile, I'll provide a few videos to aid me.

This first video will help explain in brief what this whole idea is about and it will explain in it alot more coherently than me. Please oldfan, I can tell you're interested so please watch this man.



This following video is a MASSIVE array of politicians and powerful people talking about the NWO, a one world governing body.



I'll leave this with a few quotes. Please oldfan, read, watch, research and understand. If I can make at least one person understand it'll be worth it.




“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”- Henry Ford


“Some even believe we (the Rockefeller family) are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”- David Rockefeller, Memoirs, page 405


"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."- David Rockefeller


I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.” –Abraham Lincoln - In a letter written to William Elkin
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:09 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Oohhhhh yes...the second wave of economical crisis will arrive, just as Nouriel Roubini, aka "Dr. Doom" predicted years ago.

My opinion about this is: BULLSHIT!

First of all, there wasn't any economical crysis in the first place: just some rich bastards, playing games with numbers at the expense of billions of people.
With the help of some of the biggest corporations in the world, such as Lehman Brothers, Merril Lynch, AIG, Bear Stearns, FED, the IMF, World Bank and of course.....the THE STOCK EXCHANGE - the place where money appears and dissapears like magic.

I believe the stock exchanges - all of them, worldwide - are like a legalised thiefs. The biggest frauds out there.

Just watched some news a couple of hours ago and they were saying: worldwide, in the last few days, the stock exchanges lost over 11,000 billion dollars!!!!!

F*uck me!!! My my...

My question is: how can you lose something that didn't exist in the 1st place?! All the money they've lost was just fictional money. And they've lost it!
Same scenario like in 2007.

And, i suspect the same thing will happen once again: some big finnancial corporations will say they are in big trouble, on the brink of bankrupcy and if they don't get any help from the national governments they will crumble, and once they go down, the whole system will go down and that will have devastating effects on the whole world economy....

And how can the national governments help them?! By giving them MONEY, of course. Only thing is: they get real money. Money that are worth something in the real world, not like the fictional money they've lost in the first place.

And where will the governments get that money from?! From the PEOPLE, of course!!! How?! By raising taxes, social contributions, by cutting social expenses towards people, by reducing salaries etc.

And all this, because they need to save the poor corporations, otherwise the whole world will die!

I am DISGUSTED!

And more so, because hypocrits talk about the second wave of economical crisis coming our way.

Well, i just wanna say this: here in "amazing Romania" we're experimenting with the first wave. Yup!

Romania isn't a rich country. it's one of Europe's poorest tbh. The poorest EU member, alongside Bulgaria.
So you can imagine what the "crisis" felt like "down here". I'm saying "down here", because that's how most romanians feel like atm: "DOWN".

Apart from being a poor country, Romania has "the luck" of having the worst government in it's entire history atm: full of thiefs and liars!!! Who think they are God's gift to these people, because everything they're doing is for the citizen's benefits.

Example: last year, the government decided to reduce public expenses, because this way, they would help the economy get better and shit like that. So, they've reduced everyone's salaries by 25%!
I have to mention one thing: the average salary in Romania is around 350 $. Cut 25% of it and you're left with 262 $.
In a country where the average rent for a small apartment is around 180 $...you do the math. And that's just the rent. No other expenses included, such as: electricity bill, water, gas and others.

Have a nice life, right?!

My mom had a salary of around 450 $ 2 years ago. After 38 years of working as a kindergarden teacher. They've reduced it to 350 $.

"This is for your own good!" - politicians.

How the **** it;s for my own good, when i can't buy enough food or have a hard time paying my bills, because you assholes took my money, so that you can buy yourself and your whores expensive stuff!!!

This assholes even cut my grandfather's pension. A shitty 300 $/month. They're reduced even that. After working 40+ years and paying his social contributions, now he's being treated like a garbage.

I feel so disgusted and sick of this whole situation. Everytime i talk about this i get too excited and tend to lose my cool.

And all because a few people are playing BS games, that have a huge impact on the majority's life.

Is it bad to wish all those as*holes all the worst in the world?!
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:18 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limba View Post
Oohhhhh yes...the second wave of economical crisis will arrive, just as Nouriel Roubini, aka "Dr. Doom" predicted years ago.

My opinion about this is: BULLSHIT!

First of all, there wasn't any economical crysis in the first place: just some rich bastards, playing games with numbers at the expense of billions of people.
With the help of some of the biggest corporations in the world, such as Lehman Brothers, Merril Lynch, AIG, Bear Stearns, FED, the IMF, World Bank and of course.....the THE STOCK EXCHANGE - the place where money appears and dissapears like magic.


I believe the stock exchanges - all of them, worldwide - are like a legalised thiefs. The biggest frauds out there.

Just watched some news a couple of hours ago and they were saying: worldwide, in the last few days, the stock exchanges lost over 11,000 billion dollars!!!!!

F*uck me!!! My my...

My question is: how can you lose something that didn't exist in the 1st place?! All the money they've lost was just fictional money. And they've lost it!
Same scenario like in 2007.


And, i suspect the same thing will happen once again: some big finnancial corporations will say they are in big trouble, on the brink of bankrupcy and if they don't get any help from the national governments they will crumble, and once they go down, the whole system will go down and that will have devastating effects on the whole world economy....

And how can the national governments help them?! By giving them MONEY, of course. Only thing is: they get real money. Money that are worth something in the real world, not like the fictional money they've lost in the first place.

And where will the governments get that money from?! From the PEOPLE, of course!!! How?! By raising taxes, social contributions, by cutting social expenses towards people, by reducing salaries etc.

And all this, because they need to save the poor corporations, otherwise the whole world will die!

I am DISGUSTED!
And more so, because hypocrits talk about the second wave of economical crisis coming our way.

Well, i just wanna say this: here in "amazing Romania" we're experimenting with the first wave. Yup!

Romania isn't a rich country. it's one of Europe's poorest tbh. The poorest EU member, alongside Bulgaria.
So you can imagine what the "crisis" felt like "down here". I'm saying "down here", because that's how most romanians feel like atm: "DOWN".

Apart from being a poor country, Romania has "the luck" of having the worst government in it's entire history atm: full of thiefs and liars!!! Who think they are God's gift to these people, because everything they're doing is for the citizen's benefits.

Example: last year, the government decided to reduce public expenses, because this way, they would help the economy get better and shit like that. So, they've reduced everyone's salaries by 25%!
I have to mention one thing: the average salary in Romania is around 350 $. Cut 25% of it and you're left with 262 $.
In a country where the average rent for a small apartment is around 180 $...you do the math. And that's just the rent. No other expenses included, such as: electricity bill, water, gas and others.

Have a nice life, right?!

My mom had a salary of around 450 $ 2 years ago. After 38 years of working as a kindergarden teacher. They've reduced it to 350 $.

"This is for your own good!" - politicians.

How the **** it;s for my own good, when i can't buy enough food or have a hard time paying my bills, because you assholes took my money, so that you can buy yourself and your whores expensive stuff!!!

This assholes even cut my grandfather's pension. A shitty 300 $/month. They're reduced even that. After working 40+ years and paying his social contributions, now he's being treated like a garbage.

I feel so disgusted and sick of this whole situation. Everytime i talk about this i get too excited and tend to lose my cool.

And all because a few people are playing BS games, that have a huge impact on the majority's life.

Is it bad to wish all those as*holes all the worst in the world?!
Hell yes mate. I glad theres other people that understand! Was gonna rep you and soojouku, but need to spread some love first.

People really need to wake up to this. Its not a conspiracry. Its fact.
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:26 AM   #16 (permalink)
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yay!

Angry Limbs = good fun.

Lets get more angry...
In the UK, they froze all nurses salaries for 3 years. After they did that, which is bad enough, they then decided to cut the frozen salary by £500 a year. There are about 330000 nurses in the UK = a saving of about £165 million a year.

Meanwhile...

They decommission 9 Nimrod spy planes ( 4 of which are virtually complete ) at the cost of 4 FECKING BILLION QUID. These are planes that have never been used. Because apparently, we cant afford to run them. Will we, the tax payers, get the money back from the companies that built them? Feck no. Are they willing to sell them to another country? No. So we now have to pay to demolish them as well.


Now, what kind of dark horrible mean shit is that? Clearly the 165 million they stole from the nurses means nothing to these c*unts, but everything to the nurses... and yet they do it anyway. As if nurses salaries is where we should be looking to cut, as opposed to buying very expensive planes from private arms firms, or buying £500million worth of "flu vaccines" from private pharmaceutical companies using TAX PAYERS MONEY and never needing them.

So brazen are the choices that I have to believe they are *trying* to get us to riot. Theres no other explanation.
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:50 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tyson Fury View Post
Hell yes mate. I glad theres other people that understand! Was gonna rep you and soojouku, but need to spread some love first.

People really need to wake up to this. Its not a conspiracry. Its fact.
I agree.

Atm i don't believe violence is the answer though.
Nothing good comes out of violence...except me starting beating up some romanian politician until they're vegetables...but that's another story.

The trend now is for governments to start controlling its citizens. Once you do that, it's all over.

Maybe you've heard of this story: Stallin and his chicken.
It stats to describe today's situation.
Quote:
Josef Stalin had a conference of Soviet Leaders at the Kremlin in the mid 1930's. In a cage at the end of the conference table was a single chicken, and none of the other leaders could imagine the point the eccentric, all powerful Stalin was trying to make. After keeping his senior leaders waiting for his arrival the "Man of Steel" Stalin had a quick announcement: "Comrades, I am going to give a demonstration of how to treat the Russian People."

With that, Stalin went to the cage and plucked the bird clean while it was alive. The bird hysterically squealed and squirmed as Stalin plucked its feathers away and let them fall to the floor. He began a tirade of complaints against each of his ministers as he did this which left each man scared to death for his own survival. The leaders could not believe their eyes although none of them were strangers to cruelty, that the bird could long survive this. Once plucked, Stalin released the bloodied, fear ridden animal, reached into his greatcoat and threw a few kernels of corn on the floor that the bird slowly and quietly ate at the feet of its torturer.

Stalin proceeded to the rest of his demands of his leaders. Frequently he stood and paced as he walked describing which food rations would be cut, the number of people who were to be arrested in his purges, and the instructions how they were to be slaughtered, tortured, or merely sent to Siberia to be worked to death. As he walked, following him closely was the chicken.

The message was clear. Strip people of all health, prosperity, security, humanity and keep them fearful, and they will follow you.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:01 PM   #18 (permalink)
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ok just a quick check for my on curiosity.

How many posters in this thread have ever campaigned for a candidate or an issue?

How many belong to a political party?

How many voted in the last election they were eligible for?

How many can name the federal politician who is supposed to be answering to you and your neighbors?

that would be a good place to start changing the world.

get involved. Be constructive. Don't be a bobby
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:17 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
ok just a quick check for my on curiosity.

How many posters in this thread have ever campaigned for a candidate or an issue?

How many belong to a political party?

How many voted in the last election they were eligible for?

How many can name the federal politician who is supposed to be answering to you and your neighbors?

that would be a good place to start changing the world.

get involved. Be constructive. Don't be a bobby
The Green party had no representative in the area I last lived in. Our options were twat A vs twat B.

But seriously, you have no idea the lengths me and my missus go to to educate ourselves about all the companies who provide our goods. We will buy as much food as we can, regardless of price, from local suppliers. Basically, we boycott a lot of goods that provide everybody else with a cheap living. Even if I cant do anything about it, I can certainly not aid these feckers in getting bigger. Even if it means my quality of life suffers a bit for it.

I have my own views on how to live in the world. We ( my family ) are working our way towards it. A home which provides its own energy, water and disposal. I dont want to rely on 3rd parties to provide my essentials for the rest of my life. If I provide for myself, and have no wages, then my taxes are non existent. Thats how I choose to rebel against this shit.

How does that help the rest of the world? It doesn't. But everyone can choose to rebel in their own way. The dependency needs to stop. On the monetary system. On the energy providers. Oil producers. etc... at least, it does for me. I cant live like this. It vexes me no end.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:28 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
The Green party had no representative in the area I last lived in. Our options were twat A vs twat B.

But seriously, you have no idea the lengths me and my missus go to to educate ourselves about all the companies who provide our goods. We will buy as much food as we can, regardless of price, from local suppliers. Basically, we boycott a lot of goods that provide everybody else with a cheap living. Even if I cant do anything about it, I can certainly not aid these feckers in getting bigger. Even if it means my quality of life suffers a bit for it.

I have my own views on how to live in the world. We ( my family ) are working our way towards it. A home which provides its own energy, water and disposal. I dont want to rely on 3rd parties to provide my essentials for the rest of my life. If I provide for myself, and have no wages, then my taxes are non existent. Thats how I choose to rebel against this shit.

How does that help the rest of the world? It doesn't. But everyone can choose to rebel in their own way. The dependency needs to stop. On the monetary system. On the energy providers. Oil producers. etc... at least, it does for me. I cant live like this. It vexes me no end.
the only thing in that post I can find fault with is the bold part. I disagree. it does more to help the rest of the world than what 99% of people do.
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