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Old 09-23-2011, 08:09 AM   #11 (permalink)
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It's interesting... I'll give you that. But productive? I'm not so sure.

1000 years ago we understood a lot about the earth, animals and plants that grow on it. Knowledge that's been lost and replaced with mass production. In Britan, we burned all of this knowledge years ago and burned anybody who followed it on the stake calling them witches and devil worshippers.

Because modern science and in particular pharmaceutical companies are only interested in patents and money making, not advancement of the human race. At the end of the day, you cant patent herbs... but you can patent synthetic compounds. If somebody discovered a group of herbs that cured cancer, do yo think they would make that information public? Feck no. They would bury it and ruin the people who discovered it. The only science that gets advanced is patentable science. I dont consider this progress.

So, in closing, I really don't believe we are actually more advanced then we were 1000 years ago. I know that might sound preposterous to you, but its honestly how I feel.

Now, you can all proceed to laugh at me. I can take it.
Illnesses that would be a death sentence 1,000 years ago are being cured within 3 days by swallowing a few pills. This isn't an advancement?

Children who are born with disfigured limbs or issues that would surely die within days of being born, are being operated on and fixed of this, and go on to live fully functional lives. This isn't advancement?

There are literally countless examples where science has provided extreme advancement to our species and many other species as well. You're saying because companies use these results to make money, that we haven't advanced?

What does this have to do with science whatsoever? Now you're talking about big business interest and companies taking discoveries that are found via science and pricing them. It has nothing to do with science, science is the process that found the cure to these things, it isn't the ones using it to make money.

Besides, who cares? I'd rather pay for my box of antibiotics and not die from my illness, than not have the antibiotics at all. Again, though, this has nothing to do with science, it has to do with big business that makes people pay for the results of it (which, again, it's better to pay for the cure so you don't die, than to die because there's no cure).

As for knowledge of the plants and herbs and all this, we still have all this knowledge. Not only do we have it, we've found ways to advance medicine by using some of these in a way that would make people 1,000 years ago think we were pulling magic on them.
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Old 09-23-2011, 08:58 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Of course. I understand your points gentlemen.

My opinion is unswerving. I don't trust the motives behind the sciences. I never will. We can debate this all day long, but my opinion remains. Even if it is human nature, rather than the fault of science. I cant separate the two. All i see is a planet thats a god damn mess and completely unsustainable. The way we lived 1000 years ago is completely sustainable. Yes we died younger. Yes we had issues. But at least we survived. Way we are going now, we are heading towards a disaster. Thats not advancement.
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:20 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Great discovery, but i don't know how it will improve the quality of our lives.

Maybe the next generations (+100 years) will benefit from it.
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:37 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by limba View Post
Great discovery, but i don't know how it will improve the quality of our lives.

Maybe the next generations (+100 years) will benefit from it.
This could be remembered as the breakthrough that led us to the stars.

or a better flashlight, either way we live in iteresting times.
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:47 AM   #15 (permalink)
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If I can use an example:-

They found, about 10 or so years ago, that certain brain actions greatly reduced the chances of diseases like alzheimers. It was a major breakthrough at the time. Some science dude found some cleaver shit going on in the deepest parts of our brain. They said there is now solid evidence that puzzles like Sudoku ( fecking hate them ) have an amazing effect on stopping these brain degenerative diseases.

Suddenly, everybody is doing Sudoku. My dad. My missus mum and grandparents. Everybody who heard the news.

Then, a couple of years ago, they "discover" that anybody with even the slightest onset of brain degenerative disease, doing these puzzles, will SPEED UP the development of the disease. They then tell us, that by "onset" they mean even the slightest tiniest symptoms. Now, seeing as its virtually impossible to diagnose dementia in its earliest stages, they in essence are now telling us that it could very well be bad for us as none of us really know that we've developed alzheimers till the symptoms become more obvious.


The above story is nothing new. Many times the "truth" of science has been exposed as nothing more than a naive presumption. THAT is why science pisses me off. They unpeel veery thin layers of an absurdly complex system that is our universe. A few tests come back with positive results over a 2 or 3 year period, and then they impose that shit on us as some kind of universal fact. They present their findings with no disclaimers and no admittance that this shit can be disproved and probably will be.

It wasn't that long ago they discovered that paracetamol gives you far more headaches long term.


You can keep your science. Even if I become ill, and some amazing science saves my life, I wont change my mind. As a whole, science believes in itself too much, and is causing the planet as a whole more damage then good.

EDIT


Quote:
Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
This could be remembered as the breakthrough that led us to the stars.

or a better flashlight, either way we live in iteresting times.
... or the melting of our planet. I'm just as happy believing in any of them!
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:56 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
This could be remembered as the breakthrough that led us to the stars.

or a better flashlight, either way we live in iteresting times.
Agreed. I say...simple is better.

Science and scientific discoveries are very strange.

Like this one: it may intrigue a lot of people and even affect their way of thinking etc...but for the residents of an isolated village in the Amazon or in the hidden forrests of Congo, it has ZERO effect.

Scrience is relative.

Everyone should just go on with their lives and try to make the best of it.

PS: i'll accept the teleportation gadget, if they'll ever invent it

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Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
If I can use an example:-

They found, about 10 or so years ago, that certain brain actions greatly reduced the chances of diseases like alzheimers. It was a major breakthrough at the time. Some science dude found some cleaver shit going on in the deepest parts of our brain. They said there is now solid evidence that puzzles like Sudoku ( fecking hate them ) have an amazing effect on stopping these brain degenerative diseases.

Suddenly, everybody is doing Sudoku. My dad. My missus mum and grandparents. Everybody who heard the news.

Then, a couple of years ago, they "discover" that anybody with even the slightest onset of brain degenerative disease, doing these puzzles, will SPEED UP the development of the disease. They then tell us, that by "onset" they mean even the slightest tiniest symptoms. Now, seeing as its virtually impossible to diagnose dementia in its earliest stages, they in essence are now telling us that it could very well be bad for us as none of us really know that we've developed alzheimers till the symptoms become more obvious.


The above story is nothing new. Many times the "truth" of science has been exposed as nothing more than a naive presumption. THAT is why science pisses me off. They unpeel veery thin layers of an absurdly complex system that is our universe. A few tests come back with positive results over a 2 or 3 year period, and then they impose that shit on us as some kind of universal fact. They present their findings with no disclaimers and no admittance that this shit can be disproved and probably will be.

It wasn't that long ago they discovered that paracetamol gives you far ore headaches long term.


You can keep your science. Even if I become ill, and some amazing science saves my life, I wont change my mind. As a whole, science believes in itself too much, and is causing the planet as a whole more damage then good.

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Old 09-23-2011, 09:59 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
If I can use an example:-

They found, about 10 or so years ago, that certain brain actions greatly reduced the chances of diseases like alzheimers. It was a major breakthrough at the time. Some science dude found some cleaver shit going on in the deepest parts of our brain. They said there is now solid evidence that puzzles like Sudoku ( fecking hate them ) have an amazing effect on stopping these brain degenerative diseases.

Suddenly, everybody is doing Sudoku. My dad. My missus mum and grandparents. Everybody who heard the news.

Then, a couple of years ago, they "discover" that anybody with even the slightest onset of brain degenerative disease, doing these puzzles, will SPEED UP the development of the disease. They then tell us, that by "onset" they mean even the slightest tiniest symptoms. Now, seeing as its virtually impossible to diagnose dementia in its earliest stages, they in essence are now telling us that it could very well be bad for us as none of us really know that we've developed alzheimers till the symptoms become more obvious.


The above story is nothing new. Many times the "truth" of science has been exposed as nothing more than a naive presumption. THAT is why science pisses me off. They unpeel veery thin layers of an absurdly complex system that is our universe. A few tests come back with positive results over a 2 or 3 year period, and then they impose that shit on us as some kind of universal fact. They present their findings with no disclaimers and no admittance that this shit can be disproved and probably will be.

It wasn't that long ago they discovered that paracetamol gives you far ore headaches long term.


You can keep your science. Even if I become ill, and some amazing science saves my life, I wont change my mind. As a whole, science believes in itself too much, and is causing the planet as a whole more damage then good.

EDIT




... or the melting of our planet. I'm just as happy believing in any of them!

You're killin me with the Alzhiemers part. As someone who eats fresh blueberries every day.....what else have you heard??

Sookie there's no doubt that the truth changes as we learn more But it boggles my mind to hear someone in your field talk that way. what would you prefer? that we quit learning?
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:02 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by limba View Post
PS: i'll accept the teleportation gadget, if they'll ever invent it
Ohhh... now youve got me. Hmmmm. There are probably a few very cool things that'll sway me. Teleportation is one of them. BUT, dont say I didn't warn you when all men who have been teleported lose their knobs after 33 years.

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I. HATE. YOU.





Quote:
Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
You're killin me with the Alzhiemers part. As someone who eats fresh blueberries every day.....what else have you heard??

Sookie there's no doubt that the truth changes as we learn more But it boggles my mind to hear someone in your field talk that way. what would you prefer? that we quit learning?
No. I just want some realism added to the mix. Every time I see a science documentary, or read a science paper, or whatever, the dude delivering the information is always a smug c*unt who proclaims the findings to be some kind of solid truth. Maybe, in reality, what riles me most is not science, but the way people blindly believe it 100% without knowing there are huge risks being taken with all big discoveries.



EDIT.

What is wrong with me today? I'm in a furiously competative mood. Maybe I should back away from this thread... where is cooper when you need him?
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:53 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
Ohhh... now youve got me. Hmmmm. There are probably a few very cool things that'll sway me. Teleportation is one of them. BUT, dont say I didn't warn you when all men who have been teleported lose their knobs after 33 years.
Teleportation used for sex needs.

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I. HATE. YOU.

Look what you made me do...


Tried solving the puzzle failed...
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Old 09-23-2011, 11:02 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Just think 50 years from now if this is true people will laugh at us for thinking nothing can travel faster than light.....Much like we laugh at people for think the world was "flat" or the earth was the center of the universe......I know it's nowhere near as advance but who's to say the speed of light is just a thought that hindered our thinking?

We often set up barriers to what we think is the "law". But hell think about it no body had flown something "heavier than air" until 1902..... There were other people that "flew" gliders way before that but people said it was impossible...as early as 1010 AD.......And here we are
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