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Old 04-18-2013, 02:43 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Machoman View Post
Randy was at hw at the time if I'm not mistaken and chuck was titos successor. That is my logic.

I'm not taking his entire career not consideration just the championship reign
How can you not take into consideration the man who ended Tito's championship reign?

Also how much value can you place on his "reign" when he lost to the champion, Frank Shamrock.

Finally their was another title going on in a rival company that had a similar and even stronger roster of 205ers.

Many of the HW champions of that era were really LHW's. Their's a famous story of one of the pre-Zuffa owners going up to Tito and asking him how much weight he could cut down to, Tito says 205 and thus the division is born. Their was quite a bit of flux in the divisions, and Tito's run half of those guys were MW's.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:55 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by John8204 View Post
How can you not take into consideration the man who ended Tito's championship reign?

Also how much value can you place on his "reign" when he lost to the champion, Frank Shamrock.

Finally their was another title going on in a rival company that had a similar and even stronger roster of 205ers.

Many of the HW champions of that era were really LHW's. Their's a famous story of one of the pre-Zuffa owners going up to Tito and asking him how much weight he could cut down to, Tito says 205 and thus the division is born. Their was quite a bit of flux in the divisions, and Tito's run half of those guys were MW's.
I think chuck in his prime was better than Tito in his prime, I just think that hat particular loss was the end of titos prime. He was never he same after.

To give you another example, chuck had a much better career than rampage ith UFC, still got beat twic and losing his belt was the beginning of the end.

And you just can't bring people from other weight classes and promotions into this as Tito hd no control over those things.

People love to hate the Tito, but he was the longest reigning lhw champ ever an is a sure fire hall of famer.

Anyone who thins otherwise is. A Hall of Lamer
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:02 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Anderson took his soul.

But seriously, his head doesn't seem to be in the game anymore. He's had some pretty weird interviews and the instances where he ran out of the cage after his fights were weird.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:34 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Machoman View Post
I think chuck in his prime was better than Tito in his prime, I just think that hat particular loss was the end of titos prime. He was never he same after.

To give you another example, chuck had a much better career than rampage ith UFC, still got beat twic and losing his belt was the beginning of the end.

And you just can't bring people from other weight classes and promotions into this as Tito hd no control over those things.

People love to the Tito, but he was the longest reigning lhw champ ever an is a sure fire hall of famer.

Anyone who thins otherwise is. A Hall of Lamer
First part, I agree that Tito is beloved, the UFC did a great job building stars. Matt Hughes, Tito Ortiz, Randy Couture, and BJ Penn have huge fan bases. Now a big reason for that is hype, and business, and building guys up and promoting them.

But when you look at Tito's career objectively their are certain things that you simply can not argue. First and foremost he was a UFC champion who didn't beat the previous champion. You may not respect Quinton Jackson and Forrest Griffin but they defeated the LHW champion to win those titles. They weren't hand picked to fight another hand picked guy to be a champion to quote a famous wrestling figure...to be the man you must beat the man.

You bring up "guys from other weight classes", lets be real here for a second Mark Coleman, Randy Couture, Bas Rutten, Kevin Randleman, Maurice Smith, and Vitor Belfort are not "true" heavyweights, they competed by choice (or by force) in the HW division until the true HW's came in. But even if you don't wish to credit them as LHW's, excluding Randy Couture who won and held the UFC LHW belt twice as being out of his weight class is crazy. It's also borderline delusional seeing as how he beat Tito for the title.

Wanderlei Silva had a title run that was almost twice as long as Tito's against arguably better guys. Shogun's 12-1 Pride run was devastating against guys that are still in the top ten today. Quinton became the first unified undisputed champion of the division. Dan Henderson beat champions in four different weight classes. And Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell, and Frank Shamrock all UFC LHW champions went 4-0 against Tito. And all save for Frank outlasted him in the sport. To quote another wrestler can you look at Tito and say he was the best their is, the best their was, and best their ever will be?

Forrest Griffin, rose to the top of a combined roster of 205ers from the WFA, Pride and UFC. Forrest didn't go for years without a win once the companies merged. And Forrest, beat Tito...twice. And to give out one last wrestling quote, Forrest Griffin was simply the best in the world at we he did.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:53 AM   #15 (permalink)
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You make some good points,
But I still believe you can't discount the fact that Tito was the longest reigning lhw champ of all time, there is something to that.

Tito was the best lhw UFC had a the time, for ove three years, forest won an "iffy at best" decision an lost the title on his next fight.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:08 AM   #16 (permalink)

 
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Forrest has heavy ADHD, major confidence issues and I swear he's bi-polar, shame he can't get his head into it, but he's overtrained his body over the years to the point he just isn't effective anymore. But I live in hope/over-optimism that Forrest will come back re-energised and looking better.
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:16 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Tito was dodging Liddell. Whether it be their previous friendship or the UFC, Liddell was the man even when Tito had the belt. It wasn't a matter of if Liddell would take the belt, it was when and from whom.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:04 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I'm sort of in the same boat as others. Never a huge fan, but I liked to root for him back in the day. Recently he has become a little annoying and has lost heart/desire.

I can't think of many fights that would make sense for him now. You either have guys who will take his head off, or you have guys who aren't the name you need for a Forrest fight.

Only thing I could come up with is Wandy vs. Forrest at 205. Or a Rashad rematch?
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I agree. Lately, he's been a head case- specifically, his running out of the ring antics immediatley post-fight.

And in terms of what he can do in the octagon, he's done, and I'm not interested in seeing him come back.

Is he amusing? Yeah. Can he tell a good story? Sure.

Will I buy a card in part because Forrest is on it? Nope.

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Old 04-18-2013, 03:46 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I still think Forrest would have beat Sonnen.
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