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Old 07-12-2013, 12:33 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Who the fcuk cares about his legacy.

I just want to see him fight.

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Originally Posted by Aiken View Post

Silva was IMO just an overrated striker who was handed a long string of mediocre opponents.
But this made me laugh.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:15 AM   #22 (permalink)
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So to summarize the responses -

o Rich Franklin was (and still is) an MMA god - criticism will not be tolerated
o I didn’t read your post, but you suck anyway
o I won’t agree with you, but “FEDOR!”
o I would respond to your points, but can’t be bothered because you suck!

Anderson Silva can only fight the people they put in front of him, which he did VERY successfully… but beating mediocre opponents for years on end does not a legacy make… and to those of you that shout Henderson or Vitor – read the post please because I openly state these are (IMO) his best performances against quality opposition – but two decent performances does not make you the B/GOAT

I agree with marcthegame when he states “At the end of the day the guys Anderson fought had a rightful path for a title shot.“ But that isn’t proof of greatness, just proof that he was better than his opponents – something that I never questioned.

Anderson Silva is a fighter I love to watch, his “ballet of violence” (or however Joe Rogan once described it) was a joy to watch – when it was on show. But too often Silva clowned about rather than jump into someone’s guard – even against Weidman he was doing everything he could to convince the challenger to stand with him, rather than take him again (lesson learned? I hope so)

When Jon Jones fights, he willingly enters his opponents world and dominates –

Shogun - he traded blow (I didn’t say it was fair trade) until shogun tapped,
Jackson - he stood in front of him and beat him at his own game, then tapped him out for a career first
Machida - the fight turned when Bones caught Machida leaping in (the thing Lyoto is famous for)
Evans – Jones’ worst performance (can it be justified because of their history? – don’t care, it was crap performance and I refuse to shine that turd)
Befort – Jones nearly pays (al la Fedor vs. Werdum) for his aggression – but won anyway
Sonnen – he Chael’d Chael

When talking about the BSF or BIS (best so far/best I’ve seen) the conversation must include Fedor, GSP, Penn, Coture, Rutan and yes it should include Silva. But claiming that Silva is the best mixed martial arts fighter the world will ever know is silly, and given what happened at the weekend, clearly not true.

Want to talk about a genuine legacy – take a look a Rocky Marciano on Wikipedia – 49-0 with most wins coming via KO/TKO. Now that is a legacy

Continuing the boxing analogy – what about Ali? He fought the best (when the best really was the best) and although he lost against Frasier and Norton both losses were avenged. He lost three of his last four fights but there aren’t many people who argue that Ali was the Greatest; have you ever watched “The Rumble in the Jungle” – when people genuinely feared for Ali’s life going into the fight

IMO – Anderson Silva is a great fighter. But the fanatical idol worship of this fallen hero should be put into perspective… sure he’s good, but lets see how he fairs in the last few fights of his career now that the invincible aura has been broken. I predict he’ll win 60-70% of his remaining fights, (an easy prediction considering almost everyone (Fedor I’m looking at you) falter at the end of their career) but still means we have three/four more opportunities to see Silva prostrate on the ground. I just hope someone has the good decency to samba over his unconscious body – and see how he likes watching the replies!
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:27 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
So to summarize the responses -

o Rich Franklin was (and still is) an MMA god - criticism will not be tolerated
o I didn’t read your post, but you suck anyway
o I won’t agree with you, but “FEDOR!”
o I would respond to your points, but can’t be bothered because you suck!

Anderson Silva can only fight the people they put in front of him, which he did VERY successfully… but beating mediocre opponents for years on end does not a legacy make… and to those of you that shout Henderson or Vitor – read the post please because I openly state these are (IMO) his best performances against quality opposition – but two decent performances does not make you the B/GOAT

I agree with marcthegame when he states “At the end of the day the guys Anderson fought had a rightful path for a title shot.“ But that isn’t proof of greatness, just proof that he was better than his opponents – something that I never questioned.

Anderson Silva is a fighter I love to watch, his “ballet of violence” (or however Joe Rogan once described it) was a joy to watch – when it was on show. But too often Silva clowned about rather than jump into someone’s guard – even against Weidman he was doing everything he could to convince the challenger to stand with him, rather than take him again (lesson learned? I hope so)

When Jon Jones fights, he willingly enters his opponents world and dominates –

Shogun - he traded blow (I didn’t say it was fair trade) until shogun tapped,
Jackson - he stood in front of him and beat him at his own game, then tapped him out for a career first
Machida - the fight turned when Bones caught Machida leaping in (the thing Lyoto is famous for)
Evans – Jones’ worst performance (can it be justified because of their history? – don’t care, it was crap performance and I refuse to shine that turd)
Befort – Jones nearly pays (al la Fedor vs. Werdum) for his aggression – but won anyway
Sonnen – he Chael’d Chael

When talking about the BSF or BIS (best so far/best I’ve seen) the conversation must include Fedor, GSP, Penn, Coture, Rutan and yes it should include Silva. But claiming that Silva is the best mixed martial arts fighter the world will ever know is silly, and given what happened at the weekend, clearly not true.

Want to talk about a genuine legacy – take a look a Rocky Marciano on Wikipedia – 49-0 with most wins coming via KO/TKO. Now that is a legacy

Continuing the boxing analogy – what about Ali? He fought the best (when the best really was the best) and although he lost against Frasier and Norton both losses were avenged. He lost three of his last four fights but there aren’t many people who argue that Ali was the Greatest; have you ever watched “The Rumble in the Jungle” – when people genuinely feared for Ali’s life going into the fight

IMO – Anderson Silva is a great fighter. But the fanatical idol worship of this fallen hero should be put into perspective… sure he’s good, but lets see how he fairs in the last few fights of his career now that the invincible aura has been broken. I predict he’ll win 60-70% of his remaining fights, (an easy prediction considering almost everyone (Fedor I’m looking at you) falter at the end of their career) but still means we have three/four more opportunities to see Silva prostrate on the ground. I just hope someone has the good decency to samba over his unconscious body – and see how he likes watching the replies!
Using your logic I could go through all Bones opponents you've listed and say they are all much smaller men then Bones. I could say that isnt proof of greatness. Its proof that Bones is bigger then everybody else. I could say hes fought nothing but over the hill has-beens. I could say all these things. But I wont. You know why? Because its fecking ridiculous bollocks is why.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:02 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
I was as shocked as most when Weidman floored Silva at the weekend. After watching the fight several more times since, I’ve started to question my own recollection of his previous fights and performances… Is it possible that Anderson isn’t as great as we have been lead to believe? Before we take a quick look at his UFC record as champion, I want to state for the record that I’ve enjoyed watching Silva fight, with a couple of obvious exceptions, and consider myself a fan…

(thanks to Wikipedia for the information)

10-14-06 Rich Franklin - Do we consider Franklin a true champion (I know he held the belt, but I’m sure you know what I mean) or a journeyman?
07-07-07 Nate Marquardt - Good fighter, but potential champion?
10-20-07 Rich Franklin - How much better was he this time?
03-01-08 Dan Henderson - Hendo is not my favorite fighter, but I consider this one Silva’s two best performances
07-19-08 James Irvin - He won three of his next nine fights and just stood there getting hit…
10-25-08 Patrick Cote - I don’t remember being impressed with this fight – although that might be due to the way it finished?
04-18-09 Thales Leites - Decision victory
08-08-09 Forrest Griffin - Another LHW that stood there waiting to be hit…
04-10-10 Demian Maia - HORRIBLE fight
08-07-10 Cheal Sonnen - I genuinely regret not seeing this live – but that being said, Cheal Sonnen might be well known, but it’s not for his ability to fight (and Silva was injured?)
02-05-11 Vitor Belfort - The other genuinely impressive performance since becoming champion
08-27-11 Yushin Okami - Do we consider Yushin to be “world class”?
07-07-12 Cheal Sonnen - The only thing that changed was Silva wasn’t injured. Opponent quality remained sub-par
10-13-12 Stephan Bonnar - Another LHW that just stood there getting hit
07-06-13 Chris Weidman - Oh dear…

So a couple of thoughts – we’ve all heard the phrase “iron sharpens iron” in other words, as a fighter you need to face a beat the best and keep being challenged in order to improve. Can we really claim that Silva has been challenged since he won the title?

I agree that simply winning that number of fights consecutively IS impressive, due to the sudden and numerous was that fights can end, but best of all time? (BTW a friend of mine from the twenty second century sent me a message recently – apparently we need to wait until 2094 before we start claiming best of all time…)

My final observation is that Silva has a Nike endorsement and nine/ten fights on his contract… it won’t surprise me if he fights (and loses) well into his 40s in order to keep the Nike and UFC cash flowing…. he claims no interest in the belt, but “loves to fight” – tell him to visit Bristol on a Saturday night – he can fight as much as he likes!

If Silva was genuinely the boat/goat then he would be scared to jump into a BJJ fighters guard – but hell, anyone tries to take him down and he squawks that a baby and insist that they “come on man, let’s fight”. The boat/goat would engage wherever necessary…

Silva was IMO just an overrated striker who was handed a long string of mediocre opponents.
What a lord of bull this is. One day he's the best in the world, one loss, and he was never very good. Iron sharpens iron? He was fighting the best available. It's not like there were all these other elite MW's out there that he was ducking or that the UFC couldn't wrangle in, he literally fought every top fighter in his division. They seemed mediocre because he made them look mediocre in comparison. Without him in there, the apparent depth of the division would have been much greater. That's what truly dominant fighters do.

Following your logic the whole top 10 must be empty or something, and everyone in the UFC at MW sits below that. Makes no sense at all.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:25 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HexRei View Post
What a lord of bull this is. One day he's the best in the world, one loss, and he was never very good. Iron sharpens iron? He was fighting the best available. It's not like there were all these other elite MW's out there that he was ducking or that the UFC couldn't wrangle in, he literally fought every top fighter in his division. They seemed mediocre because he made them look mediocre in comparison. Without him in there, the apparent depth of the division would have been much greater. That's what truly dominant fighters do.

Following your logic the whole top 10 must be empty or something, and everyone in the UFC at MW sits below that. Makes no sense at all.
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear before - if so, I apologize.

I agree with almost all your first paragraph - yes he can only fight the people put in front of him (a point i already made) and yes a truly dominant fighter will make his opponents look bad...

Mike Tyson won most of his fights before he even stepped in the ring, his personality and aura of invincibility scared the pants other fighters... but once he lost, and the aura faded, he was routinely beaten (in some cases buy genuinely poor opponents - Williams and McBride)

Most fighters or students of the fight game will tell you that the last thing a fighter loses is his punching power - what's rarely talked about is what is lost first - I would suggest:

Reaction
Speed
Stamina
Power

It's all just a matter of time... personally I'd like to see Silva retire and leave us with the memories we have - I don't want to see Silva reduced to calling himself the peoples champion...

Interestingly, although people here disagree with my position, not many are able to articulate why...

At the end of the day, this is my opinion - you of course, are entitled to one of your own
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